Making Way
Welcome to "Making Way", a podcast about finding your own path in life.
Join us as we explore the journeys of inspiring individuals who have forged their own paths in life. We chat with entrepreneurs to artists to teachers, our guests share their stories of overcoming challenges, taking risks, and discovering their passions. Through candid conversations and practical advice, "Making Way" offers insights and inspiration for anyone looking to break free from convention and make their own mark in the world.
I want you to embrace your individuality and create a life that truly reflects who you are!
Follow our podcast and start making way!
Making Way
Wealth Beyond Wall Street
Our latest conversation with my friend Jeff Wong peels back the layers, revealing how a pastor's son navigates the complexities of wealth, career choices, and the undercurrents of personal values that have steered his life's voyage.
Have you ever pondered the tightrope walk between financial aspirations and the core convictions that make you, well, you? From a fresh business school graduate cutting his teeth at Charles Schwab to his journey through Wall Street, we examine the interplay of faith, finance, and the introspection that accompanies managing others' fortunes.
As we wrap, we don't just tally up net worth, but the worth netted from friendships, community, and those quiet moments of self-reflection. Jeff shares the wisdom he'd impart to his younger self, advocating for a life rich in experience rather than just riches. We toast to the bonds that sustain us, like my own with Jeff. I invite you to reflect on the wealth of relationships in your life as we explore what brings us true contentment.
Thank you for listening!
Do you know someone or have a topic you would like featured on the podcast? Leave a review and let me know! I'd love to hear from you!
Welcome to Making Way. I'm your host, melissa Park. Mo money, mo problems. Am I right or maybe not? I grew up thinking the desire for money was bad and thinking about money was sinful. It meant I was greedy, it meant I had some sort of character defect. Along the way, my tune has changed about this topic. I began to see money as a tool that can open opportunities, relieve you from bad situations or even help you avoid them and, of course, help others. We all know the story of how money can be bad, but money can also be great. I mean, what happens on the inside of our hearts is our responsibility.
Speaker 2:I guess you know when you look back at your choices that you make, you know when you decided on what is my future hold, what is my career hold, you got to look at the stock price you're going to be asked to make and are you able to make those? Can you afford to make those mentally, physically? You know and deal with it In my career. You know, on Wall Street and in trading, you know I had plenty of ups and downs. I had years where we got, we made nothing. Not only did we not make anything working for a whole year, we lost money.
Speaker 1:I'm eager to share with you the story of my friend, jeff Wong. Jeff ran his own hedge fund for over two decades. Currently, he works as a luxury of real estate agent in Los Angeles. Jeff is so not the money guy, but he's the money guy. It's misleading to start this conversation with money, because, even though Jeff made a career in finance, it's the last thing I think of when I think of Jeff. Truly, if you know Jeff, he is the silent but kind type and low key, really funny. He's a special friend and I wanted to share his story and gather his perspective on a few things that I thought you might be interested in, which is one of the perks of having your own podcast. So, without further ado, let's start the conversation. All right, jeff, let's start from the beginning. Where are you from?
Speaker 2:Um, born in Hawaii but pretty much grew up in Southern California. I moved from Hawaii when I was around two years old and spent the majority of my life in Southern California, los Angeles. I had a little break when I moved to Chicago for two years in 2008. I've pretty much been here my whole life in Southern California.
Speaker 1:What was your family background? You have any siblings?
Speaker 2:Got two brothers, a sister, so three siblings. My father was a minister so we moved, you know, semi-frequently as a child. He had churches in Hawaii, he had churches in Los Angeles and he had churches in Illinois.
Speaker 1:How many different churches?
Speaker 2:At different times of his life. So he took a church when I was to go from Hawaii to Los Angeles, and then he took a church in Illinois to go from LA to Chicago when I was in my writer on college.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So he took a church in high school and then the last journey he took was to go back to Hawaii take a church before he eventually became a professor at Fuller Seminary.
Speaker 1:I see. So I'm sure as a kid, like you know, growing up as a minister's kid is really all you knew. But kind of looking back now, is there anything that stands out in particular about growing up in that world?
Speaker 2:I actually enjoy it. I hear a lot of people asking me was it, you know, stressful? Because you're a pastor's kid? The people at the church expect you to be goody-goody, they expect you to be overly religious, even as a teenager or as a young kid. But I thought it was cool because you know you go into a new church and everybody wants to get to know the pastor's family. But he's overly friendly, overly hospitable, you know you like the VIPs.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You're the new leadership's family and so everybody's very obliging and so it's like you're the first family, so I thought it was cool. I found no regrets as far as being, you know, in that position. I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:But you never felt the pressure to kind of uphold a certain image or a certain ideal in like an Christian setting.
Speaker 2:I assume most peers at the time thought you were going to be behaved very properly. You probably had more of a religious upbringing where you're not very rebellious. But you know, after a while people just saw us as typical teenagers or typical teenagers growing up and I never felt the pressure apply to me, whether to press people or whether to fulfill a certain stereotype.
Speaker 1:Did you think that, growing up as a pastor's kid, that you would also work in ministry or wanted to pursue that route?
Speaker 2:I never, ever had that sort of career expectation. I knew I was not a public speaker, that I was, evident I was okay at it, you know, in certain settings. But I knew that wasn't my gift public speaking.
Speaker 1:Were you more reserved as a kid.
Speaker 2:A little bit shy, reserved, growing up, mainly in elementary and high school, and then I started to you know somewhat blossom in the college. Oh, it's definitely a late bloomer.
Speaker 1:Tell us more about your college blossoming. What happened in college?
Speaker 2:I think the value of college is not just knowledge and learning. I think the value of college is knowing how to socialize, knowing how to adapt to your environment with other peers. You know, I just saw it as a way to socialize, to evolve, because all of a sudden your place from being living in a family where all your needs are provided, to being set down in a college environment. It's a big shift, going from everything all your needs taken care of by, you know, your mother and father, to all of a sudden have to plan studies, have to attend classes and having to socialize with your peers.
Speaker 1:Is there anything that stands out in particular that you discovered about yourself during that time?
Speaker 2:So I just found myself, you know, at that point in college where I said, okay, what do I want to do? What do I want to, you know, create, what do I want to make of myself? And then I went and did it and I was in a hurry to get out of college. As soon as I got into my senior year at USC, you know, I said to myself, okay, I'm out of here, I just need to go make my mark. I've been studying for the last 12 years, so I was kind of anxious to get out there and do something.
Speaker 1:Two questions what's your birth order? Are you first born?
Speaker 2:No, out of four siblings, I'm number three.
Speaker 1:Number three Okay, and in terms of making your mark, like, where do you think that urge to just kind of like get out there and make your mark? Where did that come from?
Speaker 2:I just said you know I need to see what all this learning has produced in me. So how does that interpret into, you know, a job, a profession, a career, a means of, you know, supporting myself. And you know, make, like I said, making my mark. I was eager to do that. I didn't want to prolong it and you know, do four more year or three more years in law school, two more years in front MBA. I just want to get out there and accomplish something. And it wasn't big dreams Like I didn't have to like create this, invent this or be the best at this. I just said I wanted to go out there and apply my knowledge and see what becomes of it.
Speaker 1:What was your idea of how that was going to manifest in your life? What did you think you're going to do at that time?
Speaker 2:When I was getting ready to graduate as a senior, I didn't have any real idea what I wanted to do. My parents were living in Hawaii during my college years so ironically I, instead of interviewing for jobs, instead of lining up a job right after college, I just went back to Hawaii, lived with my family and just to kind of take some time off and decide what I wanted to do. If you know anything about the Hawaii economy, there's not much to do for school or business grad. There's not a big finance community in Hawaii. There's tourism, hospitality, there's restaurant, business, food and beverage, but you know, there's not really any kind of a center for finance, unless you want to be a teller in a bank. So I just decided to go home to Hawaii and be compressed for the summer, which turned into like eight months, and then determined from there what I wanted to do, and then eventually I moved from there to San Francisco to start a career in finance.
Speaker 1:What did you do during those eight months? What was going through your head? Were you feeling like lost or scared, or were you just kind of like chilling? And then it just got a spark of inspiration. What was happening during that time?
Speaker 2:So after three months I was kind of at a dead end and all I was doing was basically goofing around playing golf three times a week with friends, you know, doing the whole Hawaii experience, just hanging out at the beach. And finally, after about six months, my dad came to me and I feel kind of embarrassed and it took him to come to me and he said hey, jeff, you know you just spent four years at USC. What do you, what do you think you want to do? And it was his gentle way of saying get off your butt and go get a job, whether it's or somewhere else in the mainland. And so took that nudge for him by him to kind of make get, get me to say to myself okay, you spend four to five months more, like you know, six, seven months. So now you need to do something. Get off this lazy Hawaiian you know mentality and go make your mark.
Speaker 2:Hmm which, ironically, that was my mind, said you know, years before, while in college, make my mark, but here I was just being lazy and and hanging out, and you know, in the Hawaiian paradise.
Speaker 1:Do you think you were afraid of facing that reality, of making your mark?
Speaker 2:I think it was just more uncertainty.
Speaker 1:I mean, did you feel peer pressure from any of your friends, like because I'm sure like your friends are also graduating from college and they're going off doing this job, that job or Something and you're kind of back home with your family, like did you? You didn't feel any sort of way because of that.
Speaker 2:No, not really, not really. I didn't really keep in touch with a lot of my classmates. My Husband in San Francisco. He called me and he said, hey, there's a job at our Charles Schwab. You know, the discount broker in trading thought it might be interesting for you to consider and then you can live in my house if you decide to come over here for a time. And that's what let the spark doesn't seem too unappealing in a big, cool city like San Francisco.
Speaker 1:So okay, let me actually backtrack a little bit, because I guess you chose a study finance in college. Is there a reason why you chose finance?
Speaker 2:Truthfully, I enrolled at USC as an architect major. After the first semester I said to myself this is not for me. I can't stand Hours and hours of building scale models of homes. And Even the USC staff said, hey, we're here to get the fluff out of the freshman class. So our purpose here is to see who's passionate about architecture and who's not passionate. So, for the the first semester of architect majors, one third leaves after the first one. Wow. So I was one of those that decided this is not for me. It was brutal.
Speaker 1:So then, how did you pivot to finance?
Speaker 2:business administration was always a secondary kind of Choice of mine when I applied the USC it was like architecture or business all let's try architecture, and so when that didn't work out, I just shifted to business because that was a secondary interest among was it the business aspect of things, or was it like the lifestyle and the Career path that it offered? What about that was intriguing to you, I think it was watching and movies and reading about Wall Street and the stop in New York Stock Exchange.
Speaker 2:That just intrigued me, seeing these masters of the market and how they orchestrated their trades, how they Manipulate at their their trades manipulating and not not, not necessarily a bad way. You know how they go about building their positions, building, even building their fortunes, and and to me it just seemed intriguing.
Speaker 1:So while you're in San Francisco and kind of growing your career in finance, I Guess do you have a vision for a life you wanted to create? Was that vision coming together at that time?
Speaker 2:It wasn't. I started very simply at Charles Schwab. I started at In the trading department at the at the headquarters of Charles Schwab in San Francisco. I started in the late 80s With the salary of $900 a month.
Speaker 2:And even the late 80s with inflation, that's a very, very small amount for typical Business school grads I think the majority of my classmates. You know we're making whatever back in the late 80s. They're probably like 30,000 a year, 20, 25 to 30,000 year. So here I'm making 900 a month, which comes out to what? 11,000 a year. Charles Schwab said you know. The company said you know, we're here to train you. Basically, you don't bring much value to us and accept the intellect that you don't bring much value to the company except you know Proven aptitude, because what you learn here is nothing like what you learned in college. And so all that that you learned in business school, as far as you know marketing, investment, analysis, you know you basically throw that out the window. You're gonna be learning a whole new technology and science here, and yeah. So then, after your question, it didn't really align with any of my career objectives. When I signed on with them I was just like, okay, we'll see where this goes.
Speaker 1:You didn't check many boxes, so they didn't check many boxes and were you like I don't know, like maybe scheming in your mind of, like what's next for me? Like how do I pivot out of this? And maybe this isn't exactly what I wanted it to be? Yeah, every time I'm going to be in a business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, everybody in the trading department. Their career objective Is to join an investment bank or a hedge fund or a money management firm, a private company like Goldman Sachs, like Merrill Lynch.
Speaker 1:So were you able to get into one of those lucrative career paths.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was able to get hired by a trading company based out of new york that had an office in san francisco. So I spent three year, two and a half three years at trial. Schwaab got hired on by a trading company a private trading company and trading stocks and and over the counter stocks and Did that for uh two, two and a half years in san francisco then and then moved from their San Francisco office to the los angeles office. San francisco was fun, but I just never Considered that to be a place where I was going to live. You know, I'll Return.
Speaker 1:So you know when you're talking about a jump that's like super lucrative, get like what's the ballpark in terms of how much you Like. You went from making eleven thousand dollars to like a hundred or to like two hundred thousand dollars like.
Speaker 2:Well, trading is all uh commission. Yeah, uh, you know it's not selling commission. It's how much your trading account generates over, you know, on a month-to-month basis, though. You know, as a, I was called a market maker, and as a market maker you make markets and certain over the counter stocks. Over the counter stocks or companies like apple, microsoft, amazon these didn't exist back in that time, but there's a market called the over-the-counter market, which is different from the new york stock exchange, and so I made markets in in these particular stocks and and so the company Uh gives you capital to trade with and you make markets in these particular otc stocks. So I had a set of about 30 stocks that I made a market in, and then I would trade and, and whatever I generate, over a month I got uh, I don't. I can't remember when my payout was. I think my payout was around 60%.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow whatever profits I generated over a month, I would get 60%, so that that that number was just accumulating your trading account. And then you know, you can, you can, you can withdraw, you know Uh profits at your discretion. So, yeah, it was. It was a, you know, a lot more than I was making at shawab, I think I. I think I was making 11 000 after tears when I left, I was making like 12 5, so they gave me a 10% Uh cost of living increase. Then I was making that uh. Then when I moved to the trading firm, I was making that in a month. Wow, don't not big money. You know I correct for at today's Standards. You know, yeah, a thousand a month, you know, but back then it was a lot.
Speaker 1:I mean 12,000 out of the month. I was like big money to me now.
Speaker 2:But back in the late 80s.
Speaker 1:That's huge. Do you experience a different change? Do you see things differently? Do you feel differently, like you know, because that's a huge change, like everything you've been making in a year you're now making in a month, like that's gotta kind of Leave some sort of impression or way of being. Did you experience that for yourself?
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. I mean, the one of the reasons why uh trading uh interested me was because it's unpredictable. And what intrigued me about wall street was that everything's unpredictable, it's not set in stone what I'm gonna do any given day, any given week, any given month, and so I had days or weeks without lose money. You know, you work 40 hours a week, you know, for four weeks and in a month you end up losing money and that that loss is that loss is deducted from your trading account. I mean, how does that? How does that make you feel? I just work, you know, 160 hours in a month and, uh, I end up losing, you know, $50,000 out of my trading account. So, but that didn't scare me. That intrigued me because I I like the the aspect that it's unpredictable. Every day is different. When times are good, you would, I would run the work. I mean, I could wait to get into the trading room right.
Speaker 1:Did your parents have feelings about the career path you were in and you know to see that you're going down this line of work?
Speaker 2:When you think about it, when you think about a pastor whose values Are always going to be stressing, you know faithfulness, stewardship, uh, you know, uh, living for the Living for God's kingdom I think it's going to scare anyone who has those kind of values to see their Son or daughter involved in a in a business like wastreet or the emphasis, the sole emphasis, is on money how much you're going to generate, how much you're going to make, how much you're going to, uh, you know, accomplish in a, in a strictly money, um, measure, measuring stick, um, yeah, I think that there's always that concern, you know, are you too focused on money?
Speaker 2:Is that when you're driving force versus you know, stewardship, versus you know these other values that you get taught at, you know, as a, as a person who believes in God, I think my dad had that a small concern, but I think he left it up to me to see how I would handle things. He was just like an observer. He never sat me down and said okay, jeff, you need to worry about these things in your life, you're too focused on these. He never did that, but I think he always had that watch eye to see if my values would change over time.
Speaker 1:I mean, I can see those things kind of maybe being at odds with each other, which is like what does it mean to be a steward as a Christian in the financial industry? How did you answer those things for yourself? Or like, how did you I don't know lead your life through those questions?
Speaker 2:I just think it just involved me living sacrificially, you know, during my career, and also keeping my values intact. I don't think everyone went off the deep end as far as letting money and influence or ego distract me from who I really was, and that was a one who I attribute. Everything I got everything I was able to accomplish to God's goodness and grace. So the whole time I had my career and I was involved in my local church, I kept in touch with church friends, I attended Bible studies. So I'm proud to say that I kept relatively grounded. I didn't get distracted by those kind of things.
Speaker 1:Right Like those things were not compromised because of this new life you had.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then the new life wasn't, you know, going out there buying Ferraris and going to Ibiza, you know no, that's not me, I knew what I stood for and I knew my standards, but at the same time no, don't even think it was like what you see in the movies where I'm making millions.
Speaker 2:No, it was. I was way more successful than I was in my early career, but you know I wasn't out there making millions and millions. There wasn't a huge shift in my life. It wasn't, like, you know, the Wolf of Wall Street or anything like that.
Speaker 1:What is a hedge fund? I still feel like I still don't know what a hedge fund is.
Speaker 2:What hedge fund is, do you attract a set of investors to give you money to invest and you would manage it for them. And the name hedge fund got its meaning from the ability to buy stocks and to short stocks, hence hedging and investment. So your corporate organization allows you to buy stocks to short stocks, to make investments contrary to a long position in a stock. So it's just a way of having more flexibility to manage an investment fund, much more flexible than you would at a typical mutual fund.
Speaker 1:I mean, isn't that scary though? Cause now you have other people's money at risk and, like you're responsible for that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Before I had the company money, it's not as threatening. But when you have friends, family that you're managing, yeah, any losses you take, you know, is kind of a direct hit on my own, you know, I guess, ego, because it's it's, it's affecting not only me but friends and family and for sure there's a definite discomfort. It hits you in a different way.
Speaker 1:Was there a time where, like shit really hit the fan, you know, and you're kind of I don't know freaked out or like I don't know?
Speaker 2:I've managed some of my dad's money at one point back in, I don't know, the mid nineties and it was the the the, the market volatility was getting rough. And I just said to him I just called my dad and said dad, thanks for putting your trust in me, but I really think that I'm not the one to be managing your money. It's too personal for me and I don't even know what he did with it. Maybe he gave it to another stock wherever to manage. But I just said it's just, it's just overwhelming for me.
Speaker 1:So okay, after the hedge fund, is this where you're opening up your modeling agency?
Speaker 2:That was more of a hobby. I never worked with it.
Speaker 1:How do you run an agency as a hobby?
Speaker 2:I just, we're just investors in it.
Speaker 1:Oh, I see.
Speaker 2:And so was this something fun to do.
Speaker 2:We knew a person who worked at one of the biggest agencies in in West Hollywood and he wanted to do I got in his own, so we basically financed them. So he started an agency that we all were investors in, founders of an agency and and it was like I said, I never worked there, I never made any corporate decisions, I just we were just you know, kind of you know the the back and the back and behind what he wanted to do, and we ran it for about 14 years.
Speaker 1:It was.
Speaker 2:It never made big much money because we were. We were not the best organized, but it was a successful agency.
Speaker 1:I mean I guess like kind of going back to the. You know the, the faith, you know your, your personal values in this world. And again I mean me. I have a very limited knowledge or understanding of the financial industry, but you know there's a just a perception. You know, like you said, the, the end, the, the goal of everything in finances is finance, it's money, right. So like how I know you, kind of like always kept close to your church community and your friends and stuff like that, but like how do you navigate that world when you know you, there's just people with such a different set of values versus, like having your Christian values? Um, I guess like, how do you preserve that?
Speaker 2:Whenever I felt like I needed grounding, like I needed to really appreciate the value of money, of, of financial uh, wisdom of and and and and of being responsible, and uh, and how one spends one money Like. I just will remember back to you know, when my dad was raising us as a family, he's like here's a a father making you know, ministers get paid a lot of money in the late 1970s, 1980s he raised a family of four. He put four kids through private colleges for years each. How did he do that? By being frugal and wise.
Speaker 2:And I remember, as a minister in Chicago, he would come home, eat dinner, early dinner, and then from like 5.30 to 9 o'clock he would go work at the local shoe store, a shoe salesman. And why? Because he had to make ends meet. He had four kids on a minister's salary and he had to make ends meet, so he made those sacrifices. So I think it made me always appreciate him and realize the value of being responsible, of the value of, obviously, money and and then obviously the value of being responsible with it. And by planning ahead he was able to put four children to college, which seemed incredible back in the day.
Speaker 1:So kind of going from, like you said, I guess, humble beginnings, from a family who you know household is being supported by a pastor, to now, you know, running your own hedge fund, like kind of seeing a little bit of the spectrum of that landscape, do you feel like money brings that type of happiness or the relief that we think it's going to bring?
Speaker 2:I think for some it can bring that type of, you know, fulfillment, ratification. But when I had to close up my fund, I didn't take a big amount away from it. We were losing the last several years and you know it actually cost me money to close it up. And then, before I started my career in real estate. So yeah, I had certain points in my career with the fund, you know I was, I had that kind of financial security.
Speaker 2:But strangely enough, at the latter part, you know, after two or three, you know bad years, you know it exhausted a lot of my savings. So I went from one spectrum to the other, you know, and did it make me a stronger person? Sure, and you know I had to keep optimistic. I had to keep, you know, confident in my next career move. That you know that I can still continue to perform well and succeed. And even that was difficult, you know. If you, you know starting career in sales in real estate, you know, especially when there's so many agents in Los Angeles I think there's like last I read there was like 5,500 agents going after the same you know, luxury properties, you know I've been doing it now for six years. You know the first, you know, several years were lean.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know, long stretch of things going well and doing well and that like that brings that, just, you know, provides a different type of you know, whether it's security or lifestyle. You know, I think like that's what so many people aspire to. You know, like I just want to make X amount of dollars, I want to make X more dollars, so then I, then I can act, whatever that blank is like. I feel like we all have that. If I just can make this much, then I could this and you know, yeah, I guess just wondering for you if, like you had that and like if you did, if it is worth it, I guess.
Speaker 2:I can't say I was ever at that point where I said to myself enough is enough or I have enough, and it's not a sense of greed or so overly ambitious. It was just like in your. In this type of career, you know, there's always room to, to evolve and to grow. You know, if you return 15% this year, why can't you aim to return, you know, 22% next year to really impress your clients? You know, or make 30% next year. So there's always that measure instinct that makes you want to, you know, do better year after year.
Speaker 2:And I was thinking when I was watching you know what was it I was watching, I think I was watching Scarface, the other and you have, you know, al Pacino playing this drug mogul and he's got, you know, tens of millions of dollars. And I said, I keep saying to myself, you know, at the end he gets shot and killed and he's trying to run his you know his drug empire. And I say to myself, gosh, why doesn't somebody, after the make their first 50 or 100 million, just walk away and go to the Bahamas or something, away from all the treachery and danger of, you know, of the drug smugglers world? And I say, why didn't somebody just retire instead of, you know, keeping at the game and then end up getting, you know, killed.
Speaker 2:And I say the same thing about dictators out there. You know why are these dictators? Just, you know, they're 85, nine years old. They got, you know, they got tons of money. Why don't they just walk away into the end of the sunset? Why does Val Vladimir Putin still want to rule Russia when he's probably the richest man in the world and he's got enemies? Why does it want to continue to stick around? And I said, and I said I just, I just venture a guess at these people are used to power, they're used to influence. They don't need more money, they don't necessarily need more friends, but they're just stuck and addicted to, to power, influence and and maybe maybe personal glory I don't know what it is. Sometimes enough is not enough.
Speaker 1:Oh, say more about that. What do you mean? Enough is not enough, and I never had that problem.
Speaker 2:I never said I need more, I need more, I need more. I think I need it more fulfillment. So, if so, in my business, when you had a good year, you know a good year might be making 50% return in your investment fund. Yeah, you say to yourself, what could I have done differently so I could have made 20% to really impress my clients? What could I have done differently Could I? You know, shorted the, the shorted the Japanese market. Could I, could I went? Had bigger positions in technology? Could I went long the? You know the Chinese market, you know there's always these set the way, a second guessing yourself where you could have had a better year. And, and that's what I found most common, is when your second guessing yourself how could I, how could I have done better as a better stock?
Speaker 1:Now I guess you're, you're you know the second person who I know works in hedge funds, who's kind of said the same sentiment, which is, you know, when it's like how much money is enough, and it's just, the answer is always more. You know, and I, I guess I originally I just thought, like is that just being greedy, like you just always want more money. But now I'm kind of like, you know, hearing you talk, it's maybe changing the way I'm thinking about that, which is is is. Is that like what you're? Is that what the industry trains you to do, like to think that way? Or is it that because now you're working, you're exposed to more things that you? You just endlessly see opportunities to make more, to make more money that you can. That's why you always say, well, if I make 15%, I couldn't make 20. And then, if I make 20, I could have tried to make 25. Like.
Speaker 2:I just think that everybody expects in in trade and trading and money management. Everybody expects us learning curve. You never reach the end of a learning curve on. You can return better you can. You can orchestrate and produce better returns for you or your clients. You're always going to have a way to learn.
Speaker 2:So if I, if I bought tech stocks this year and then they didn't do well, what can I learn from that? What did I get? A false signal, did I get a false reading that made me buy tech stocks? If I went long a certain markets you know, say the Chinese market, and it didn't perform well, how could I use that loss or or or sub park performance to make a better choice next quarter or next year? So there's always a learning curve and I think it's not necessarily I need to make more money. It's. It's. I think the goal and the objective is how can I do better for my clients? That's, that's a measuring stick. You know better for my clients and obviously I'm going to make more money for myself because I'm on a, you know, incentive based commission.
Speaker 1:Sure, did you ever feel like I have enough?
Speaker 2:Uh, no, no, Because, like I said, I was not that guy in the movies, you know, knee deep in in in wealth. Uh, you know, I did well, but it was never. It was never that point, and and and and I don't have, and there's never a measuring stick where I what's enough, you know, is it this amount of money? Is it this amount of millions? No, it was just my own personal gratification, and it was. It was as long as able to take care of myself, provide for my needs, you know, and you know I had. You know my needs are probably not as simple as a lot of other people because of, you know, of my, of my career, but I've been able to take care of. You know, help other, help other people. Now, they're not trying to be overly, you know a goodie-goody, but you know I was able to help.
Speaker 2:You know my father. I bought him a car when I, when I was, let's see, like 30 years old, he and my dad never had a new car. He never had a new car. He always bought used cars because of his economic upbringing and putting four kids through college. That's part of the way he was able to do that, not buying a new car. So when I was I think I was like 30 years old I bought him a new car and he was so shocked he said why in the world would you do this, dad? You deserve it. You know, you've been driving around and beat up old cars, you know all your life I helped buy my brother a house in Illinois. Wow, Not.
Speaker 2:LA. I'm not a much bigger car than you can afford LA.
Speaker 1:That's so pretty nice though.
Speaker 2:Illinois for him and his family, because he had just graduated from law school and you know he didn't have the means to buy anything. And we mean I talked over with my dad I said be good for him to have a house that he cannot have to, that he can build some, you know, a future around his equity. You know I think the house at the time was $250,000. That's a lot, but you know it was able to help him out.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So little stuff like that.
Speaker 1:So for you, it's just always being it's not never, there's never like, there's no finite end point where it's like okay, I have enough, this is enough. It's just, I guess, like I don't know.
Speaker 2:No, I never reached that point and I don't want to sound like that goody-goody philanthropist who always thought about others and myself. Sure, to do what I did, you kind of always have to think about yourself. How am I going to accomplish a better return for my clients and for, under that pretense, how am I going to make more money for myself?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's always an underlying thought, but I think I didn't obsess over it. I didn't obsess. Okay, by the time I'm 40, I need to be worth this much. I don't think I've ever had that kind of impetus.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess, like so, you know, for the reason why this theme of enough, kind of what's kind of re-spark, starting this, you know, kind of starting a new season of the podcast again, is because I feel like this is a common it's not like always explicitly said, you know, within my friend groups, but I feel, like you know most of my friends like this stage in our life is where we're building right, like we're we're in our 30s, we're kind of like trying to, you know, everyone's trying to build their life and everyone's either hustling all day, like you know, to do what they need to do, and I think there is this kind of this, like you know, underlying question of like, what is enough, how much is enough? Like do I have enough for my family, you know? Do I have enough to get by? And because there's some, some of us that, like you know, they're just like maybe quote unquote work too much, and it's just like, well, why are you working so hard? You already have enough, you know.
Speaker 1:And so I think, like I don't know, it's like I even wonder that about myself, like you know, am I even even how to think about this time in my life? Do I need to go like crazy right now to kind of, you know, set myself up for the future, or do I have enough, like how do I even think about this concept as I'm trying to like plan for the future? So I'm kind of maybe curious from you, as someone who's kind of you know lived through this period of their life, like how would you kind of advise someone like me or other people in like this stage of life of the concept of enough?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I guess it's. It's all. It all boils down to a question of are you maximizing your, your potential as far as your talents and your skills? And that sounds like a cookie cutter response that any father would tell his son, but I really, I really believe in it, as long as you can maximize your talents and your skills and your and your drive. I mean, too many people out there are are dependent on their perceived skills and talents, but they don't possess a drive.
Speaker 1:Can you clarify that a little bit more, like what do you mean by that?
Speaker 2:I mean I find that super prevalent in the entertainment business is actors and actresses produced or writers, screenwriters, and they've been doing this for, like you know, 10, 15 years. You know, trying to be discovered as a next, you know, as a successful actor and actress or as a screenwriter. And they've been doing this for like 10, 15 years. And and and meanwhile, working out a waiter at your local deli and I know, please don't any, any of your listeners get off at me, because I know this is tight but that exists and these people live on their dreams. For that I I congratulate them that they can be passionate about what they're pursuing. But sooner or later you got to make a decision. Okay, what is my end goal here? Am I going to give Hollywood 20, 25 years or am I going to decide that it's not for me, it's not working out, and try to find a stable job?
Speaker 2:And I mean I met this, I mean this friend of mine. She's been an actress for like 15 years and she finally got a corporate job, somebody who was kind enough to hire her to do like marketing, like social media marketing, because that's what she's good at. And I told her oh, that's not, that sounds like a great job. They're big career path at this company. And she said oh no, I'm only going to do it until you know, for my next acting gig comes around. And I said to myself why don't you give this corporate gig a shot, like the founder really likes you? That's why he hired you. So give this shot. And maybe acting is not for you, because you've been doing acting for 15 years and it hasn't really blossomed anything. Meanwhile you're getting older, so we all know acting is a young person's game and not your age, how you look.
Speaker 2:So I just think you know, I just like to. I don't fault anybody for having a passion, but I think you have to have that motivation also, and then the and the wisdom to determine okay, is this really the path I want to take and what is my life going to look like in five or 10 years?
Speaker 1:What is it that you know, someone who's like in their twenties or thirties, need to consider? Maybe, like you know, as a 30 year old like I, it's like you just don't know what you don't know. You know, and so you're obviously saying this from a place of experience, so you know. If you were to go back like, oh, knowing what you know now you know in my thirties, I would have done X, y and Z.
Speaker 2:I guess you know when you look back at your choices that you make, you know when you're deciding on what is my future hold, what is my career hold, you know you got to look at the sock threads you're going to be, you're going to be asked to make and are you able to make those? Can you afford to make those, mentally, physically? You know and and and deal with it. And you know, in my career, you know, on Wall Street and in trading, you know I had plenty of ups and downs. I had years where we got, you know we made nothing. Not only did we not make anything working for a whole year, we lost money. So clients lose money, I lose money and you just have to find, somehow learn from that and adapt what you learn and do better next year.
Speaker 1:Do you ever think, like, even with selling luxury real estate now too, because so much of luxury real estate is, is, is opulence, and just you know it's, it's, it's more than what you actually need, Right? So do you ever like, when you're looking, you're selling real estate, are you just wondering like, is this too much? What's enough? Like even a home you know, like I don't know? Are you kind of just like this is too much, yeah.
Speaker 2:Because in in in luxury real estate, especially in Southern California, nothing is over too much.
Speaker 2:If a person likes this 10 man dollar house, that's never say to them oh, that's that, you don't need that much house, you can do better with you know eight man dollar house. No, you're selling the dream. I see that's not being, you know, disingenuous, it's just being, you know, being trying to be good at your job. That if somebody is gravitating toward this 10 man dollar house, you know selling the dream. Why this house is that great of a house? But yeah, sometimes you get conflicted.
Speaker 2:If somebody is, you feel like somebody's overpaying. You know, take some integrity in your part to say you know I can sell this house to them for 12 man dollars, but you know, maybe this is houses only worth 9.5. Right, and it's my, it's a responsibility of mine. You all kind of make them aware of that, that they can get, they can do better. You know you don't need to spend 12 million dollars on this house. They should be spending 9.5. And I think that doesn't sound like a good agent. It's not like you know, your agent that's not really doing their job. But in the long run that'll come, come back to reward you when that client is able to determine that you're being honest and you have the integrity and the ethics to say this is not a good investment and that'll come back to us you in the future.
Speaker 1:So is it fair to say maybe you don't necessarily believe that there is a concept of enough for yourself.
Speaker 2:If there is. I have an experience. Like I said, please don't misinterpret my earlier stories I was never that guy in, you know, wolf of Wall Street who had oodles and oodles and oodles. I always had room to improve. I've had years that I've could have done better if I made better decisions and I could have. I've had years that even if I made 20% for my clients, it could have been 30.
Speaker 1:So Do you feel that way about yourself personally, like as a person, like I am enough as a person, or do you kind of have that same mindset as a person, like I could be better as a person in this way or that way, or you know?
Speaker 2:I always think I can learn more.
Speaker 1:I don't, I don't find myself as much.
Speaker 2:I'm horrible at technology. Maybe that doesn't sound important to a lot of people, but you know it's, it's. I've never learned. You know true usage and about technology. So I'm not that like everybody says in my job is, as a real estate agent, I should be utilizing social media. I don't. I don't post on Facebook. I don't post on.
Speaker 2:Instagram. I don't grow exposure of my face and my name and what I do to the general public, cause I've just, I just never learned to really learn how to optimize that and utilize that for my own, for my own career. Well, as far as enough is enough, not just, you know, materially, but, you know, can I be a better person in more ways than one? Yeah, I think obviously I can.
Speaker 1:What have you seen in like maybe other peers or people who are maybe endlessly hungry and never, never feeling like anything or what they have is enough? I mean, have you seen those types of people in in your career and, just like endlessly in empty stomach, been always hungry?
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, I mean, do I see people who seem perpetually non gratified by what they're able to do? Yeah, and you know, in certain ways, you know you still have that stereotypical, you know millionaire who's who seems to have it all but he's, but he or she is miserable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do have to say for you, Jeff, like before we even became friends, like I knew of you beforehand, because at church I would always hear, um I don't know, you helping someone, or like friends I've known, or and I was like, who is this Jeff Wong guy?
Speaker 1:Like even as simply as just like hosting a party at your place? I remember, just like offering up your space, Like you know, I just, um, you know, known you to be that way, and then, even when we became friends, I felt like you were super personable, easy to talk to, generous with your time and resources. So I feel like, um, so much of what you say I guess I can vouch for, to just like firsthand and you know cause you were so plugged into um, the, the church community, and I really do feel like that was such a big part of who you were and like what was important to you. So I guess I just I wanted to tell you that and like I feel like even talking to you now, it's like really coloring the story more of who I know you to be and it's like, oh, this is making so much more sense even now to hear you share your story in that way, you know so.
Speaker 2:But that's gratifying to hear you know it's. It's not a focus on my life, but it's something that you know, I, I, I find value in just being able to be considerate for others and you know whether you have, you know, adequate means or not. Just being just being able to be sacrificial, live sacrificial, in being being conscious of, you know, of being nice to other people. That's always something that I think my father was taught me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, 100%. Well, just to wrap things up, I asked two my guest, two questions, which is what would you tell? Actually, let's start with this one what do you do for play or for fun?
Speaker 2:I'm getting older now so I don't I don't watch athletics, I have a bad back, my eyesight with these big glasses is not as great, so I think I really appreciate the company of other people. You know I was a loner a good part of my life growing up. As I mentioned, I was pretty reserved and shy growing up in, you know, high school and certain parts of college. But as I got to, but as I got you know older and I really appreciated the, the essence and the value of, of, of social interaction. You know, whether it's at my local church, whether it's at my, you know, with my peers, people from college, you know, just always find value in that. So I so I always say, you know, spend, I always try to compel myself to spend time with other people.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that you are like you said. I think even at any age, it's so easy to get comfortable and complacent. I think the fact that you're always trying different things and pushing yourself in different ways I think is extremely admirable and cause you don't have to, you can just be, you know, sitting comfortably. And why push yourself out of comfort zones when you don't have to? And the fact that you do, I think, is huge.
Speaker 2:And don't get me wrong, I'm lazy. I could be mentally lazy, physically lazy. I haven't. I've been on an airplane twice in four years oh wow, and both were funerals because I haven't pushed myself to go explore. You know, I have friends saying come visit me in.
Speaker 1:Come to New York. Yeah, come to New York, come to.
Speaker 2:Nashville. Come to visit me even, yeah, come to visit me. And my one of my best friends moved to Serbia and I was down. Oh wow, no, no, no, I'm comfortable in my own, in my own little, you know, in my own little place in LA.
Speaker 1:I haven't pushed myself.
Speaker 2:So that's what I want to do is to push myself to go to go explore more things, open my mind, broaden my mind, and internally, and so my next bucket list is meeting a friend, meet a group of friends in Peru next November.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's cool, that's awesome, that'll be fun, okay, last question what would you tell your younger self?
Speaker 2:What would I tell my younger self? Don't be so hard on yourself, don't be so self critical, so self judgmental and blame myself for a lot of the mistakes I made professionally and personally. And the second thing I would tell myself is to be more curious, and especially when those new developments in life abound and come my way. So new technologies, new belief systems, new things in life that just presented itself, that I never pursued or never found an interest in, like I said, being tech savvy, and now it's artificial intelligence. So be curious. Don't just think something's a passing fad, but just be curious and improve my knowledge and education of certain things, because the world's getting better. You have to evolve with it. You're just going to be left on the side as far as being informed. So don't be so judgmental and be more curious. You've got to odor age. We all tend to think we know as much as I need to know, but, far from the case, enjoyed it. I said thank you for inviting me. I hope I didn't scare all your viewers off.
Speaker 1:I'm glad it was fun. This is really cool. I really feel like you know I it's not lip service, I just feel like you're one of those people in my life where I, you know, just such a positive feeling towards where. You know, I just know, even through the great finds of like, what other people's experience with you have been and you know someone's always saying I'm going for a lunch or a meal with Jeff, or like Jeff helped me with this, and you know so much of it before I knew you and then, even when I got to know you, you know you're just always so warm, you know, easy to talk to, just a nice, you know good person. And you know I had I really do I reminisce a lot about the days when we'd hang out.
Speaker 1:It was just like so much fun. You know we just laugh and talk about so many things and I really appreciate you as a person. You know we don't really get to like say these kinds of things to each other, but you know I'm grateful for your friendship and so much of even like what stands out to me so like you know, in the time that we've known each other. So I just want to say thank you.
Speaker 2:Well, you're easy to be nice and heartfelt too, you make it easy. Oh wow, thank you for those kind words.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely. Thank you for listening. Well, thanks to my editor, christian Brown, for his incredible talent in leveling up this podcast and all things audio and editing. Remember there's no one way or one size fits all, so go for it. Join us next week as we continue to explore the stories of people making way.