Making Way

More Than Medicine

• Melissa Park / Nancy Huynh • Season 4 • Episode 64

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Join us for an enlightening journey with Dr. Nancy Huynh, the powerhouse of a woman who is a mother, physician, real estate investor, and visionary entrepreneur. Does the thought of financial freedom sound appealing? Well, Nancy is here to share how she achieved just that through real estate syndication and how her company Clear Vision Investing provides the same opportunity to other physicians looking to do the same. 

We'll also tackle the challenging topic of imposter syndrome and shed light on how a shift in perspective can help manage such insecurities. She shares her strategies for dealing with self-doubt.

Finally, we delve into the importance of nurturing a strong support system of like-minded individuals, and how this can help fast-track your journey towards your goals.  
Don't miss out on this engaging conversation with Nancy Huynh, a woman who is shaping her world, one venture at a time.

👉 All things Nancy...

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Speaker 1:

Ever wondered how some people effortlessly seemed to squeeze more hours into a day? I'm your host, melissa Park. Today we're diving deep into the story of our extraordinary guest, nancy Nguyen. Not only is Nancy a devoted mother, but she is also a physician, powerhouse real estate investor and a visionary entrepreneur. As a CEO and founder of Clear Vision Investing, nancy is on a mission to help physicians build wealth through multifamily syndications so they can live life and practice medicine on their own terms. We unpack Nancy's motivation and discover her approach for juggling a multitude of ventures and responsibilities. Through our conversation, you'll discover striking parallels between Nancy's journey and your own. We're finding us that we're more alike than not. This is Nguyen. Okay, let's do it. I'm so excited to hear about your origin story and how you got to where you are today Because, based on what my sister told me and then looking into a little bit about your business and your background, I'm like, okay, this woman, she's got something going on, so let's start from the beginning. So where are you from? Are you originally from Atlanta?

Speaker 2:

No, I'm originally from Los Angeles, California, born and raised there, nice, cool and well.

Speaker 1:

I actually lived at LA too for like seven years, so I love LA. What part of LA did you grow?

Speaker 2:

up in East Los Angeles and then my parents are in San Gabriel Valley now, so actually we're just there last week and took my whole family there.

Speaker 1:

We're out there, oh yeah, every day.

Speaker 2:

That's all I ate.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so what was it like growing up in LA for you?

Speaker 2:

It was kind of a very normal but abnormal childhood. My parents came here as refugees from Vietnam after the Vietnam War, so I was actually the first person in my family to be born in the States. I have an older sister and she was born in Vietnam and they came as refugees after the war. So it was kind of like a balance right, navigating between the American culture and being immersed in American school, but then your family is still very immigrant, doesn't speak English, so my first language was actually Chinese. We spoke Cantonese at home, so I was in the ESL classes and everything like that. So it was actually my second language was English and not my first.

Speaker 1:

I see, and what was that like for you in school? Do you remember like that transition period as a kid?

Speaker 2:

I don't remember too much of it, you know, but when you're young you have like glimpses and memories. I think, you know, studies have shown that when you're five and six you have kind of memories of your childhood and that's really like my first real memories and I just remember, like going to kindergarten. I had no clue what the teacher was saying and I cried, I think, for like I don't know, two months or something.

Speaker 1:

according to my mom every day and you're like I don't remember this. I blacked it out. Yeah, wait. So in Vietnam they I'm sorry for my ignorance they speak Chinese in Vietnam.

Speaker 2:

No, there's actually a subpopulation of people who move to Vietnam. So my grandparents are from China, but after the revolution they moved to Vietnam to do business, just for my opportunities and then, incidentally, both of my parents are Chinese and they met, so there is like a large Chinese population, particularly in the South and South Vietnam, which got you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so in East LA were there, were there a lot of other Chinese or Asian kids around the area too.

Speaker 2:

There were. It was a good mix, and then when we eventually moved to the San Gabriel Valley, that was like a lot of Asian kids, so I think my parents felt a lot at home there. Um, still, when I go visit, it's like you almost don't need to know English to survive.

Speaker 1:

I know it is fascinating. I just met someone this weekend where um his cousin I, because I heard an accent in her, in her, in her speech, and I thought I was like, oh, is she from you know another country? And he said no, she grew up here, but she was only surrounded by that um, like background and race and language and like didn't actually like I guess, I don't know, maybe like fully learned English, which is amazing. I mean, there's a lot of stories like that with immigrant parents and families too, like grandparents and parents never had to learn English, they just kind of stayed in their, you know, culture group. Uh yeah, I don't know what you call that, but you know, going to I didn't go to an Ivy League school, but like being in Ivy League school is, do you feel a lot of peer pressure to, I don't know, be successful or like have a certain type of pursue a certain type of career or role? Is that common in that environment?

Speaker 2:

I think there's like a one box fits all, Um, I do think that you you're surrounded by very driven people and there's something to set about environment in general, right, Whether it be in the Ivy League school or the people you surround yourself with.

Speaker 2:

So I think those four years that I was at Yale, like just put me in that environment where everyone is so driven and have these like larger goals to either change the world or, you know, make a lot of money or some aspirational goals. That is kind of infectious, Like, even if you didn't start off that way, you're like I can change the world, Maybe I can change the world right, Because I think as we move on in life we kind of get those dreams beaten out of us. But at least for those four years in that environment you're just surrounded by these amazing people who have very big aspirations and who really feel like they could do whatever they want, Right, and it's come out of a bunch of these Ivy League schools and there's just you know not to stereotype, but I think there is a certain type that is drawn to that environment and because it's so diverse, like your, your world and your aperture, the whole world just opens up and that's what it did.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, what about you? I mean, do you feel like that's? I mean yours? You clearly got into Yale, so there was something in you also before you got to this environment, like what were you like as a kid and growing up Like was? Did you have just as much of that ambition and drive before you got to Yale?

Speaker 2:

I don't think I want to say I was like a very ambitious person. I was always a relatively good student. I was never like the top of my class. For instance, I wasn't valedictorian salutatorian in my high school class. I think I ranked in the top 10, but I was never like the top of the class or top of scores or anything I did well, like I wasn't, you know, the C student. But I think I've always had this kind of goal, like I could do something bigger. You know, maybe it's not reflected in the grades right, like maybe I don't get that hundred or the A plus, but I've always had something inside of me where I felt like, yeah, maybe I can change things, you know. So I think I'm just a very optimistic look at the world as like half full type of person. I've always had that attitude. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

With that in mind, did you have an idea of what that could look like for you? No, no, just something bigger. Not sure how it would contextualize, just that it could be beyond maybe-.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, for instance, like just say, choosing colleges. I mean I think I was probably the yeah, I was probably one of the few in my high school. I went to public high school where there were over like 700 in each class, so like three or 4,000 kids. I was one of the few who actually applied out of state, so you know a lot of people. The UCs, the University of California system, is a very great school system so a lot of people just naturally go to like UC Berkeley or UCLA. But I was like I'm going to apply to those, but I feel like I want to go somewhere further.

Speaker 1:

So I went all the way across the country right as far as I was always that kid.

Speaker 2:

I was like, how can I, how can I Think outside of the box a little? Bit stretch it a little bit.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So then once you got to Yale now you're kind of seeing your people You're like, oh, other people are seeing, like have these visions and you know ideas to change the world or do something bigger. I mean, did you have did something? Start formulating at that point? I mean, obviously you went from you know changing your majors, but like just for your life, did you have some sort of idea of vision what your life would look like in college?

Speaker 2:

I think it's you know. In every step of life you just kind of take the next step right. I didn't know what my life after college look like, much less say you know my freshman year or what the next semester would look like. But it was just like taking that one step at a time and things get revealed to you and that's always how I feel like my life has unfolded. It's never kind of you know, gone the way that is exactly planned. But as you take that next step, like that door opens up and it reveals it to you, you just take that next step, it opens up and reveals to you. So I never had this like grand plan, like this is my four year plan and this is how exactly it will look, because it never looks that way. But as you like kind of take that next step, things just open up or shuts. You know that door shuts and you know, okay, well, that wasn't for me or that didn't work. And then you kind of take the next step to see what's next in your story.

Speaker 1:

How do you stay in that zone, though? Because I feel like there is something. There are people where it's their energy, just it's their mindset, and you know, some people can say it's the secret, it's manifestation and law of attraction. But, like, do you ever I mean, have you ever wondered for yourself like, how did for me, like, how did that, like, how did these doors open up and how did these like pathways kind of like unfold for me, like, does that make sense?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I kind of get what you mean. Like you know, there, especially now, there's a lot of talk about mindset and just manifesting things and I think that is a part of it, like looking back. I didn't know all the stuff about mindset. You know way back when I don't think it was talked about as much back then. But looking back, I think a lot of it is visualizing where you want to be right. I mean, I think that that is part of it. But the other part is you do have to take action.

Speaker 2:

You can't manifest yourself into into reality, but I think keeping those things that you want at the forefront really, really helps. For instance, the statistic is that, like we, we look at our phone or we engage with a phone, like over 400 times a day. So just having your goals, for instance of what you want at that time, like just listed on there and every time you swipe your phone, like you kind of implanted in your mind and it's kind of true, like once you have something in your mind and you keep obsessing over it, I've heard the saying that your obsessions become your possessions, because then you'll start attracting the people, the places, the tools that you need to make those things in reality and it sounds very woo-woo. I mean, I think it's a combination of like thinking but also doing. You know, you can't just think, but you also have to do.

Speaker 1:

So you know, now that you've chosen your career to be a doctor, like you know, you Now tell us a little bit about like what you were. I guess, like what you were starting to like move towards. With that, I mean, obviously, like you said, you just kind of were taking each step as it opened up to you. But you know, I'm assuming there's some sort of like direction you're moving towards.

Speaker 2:

Once you decided I'm gonna now pursue medicine, yeah, once I decided I was gonna go to med school in the middle of college I just kind of headers on and pursued it with full force, and so you know, I went to med school and again I went to Harvard.

Speaker 1:

so it was a very talented pool of people who feel like they could change For someone who's not that ambitious or just like wait a minute.

Speaker 2:

I mean, a lot of it is luck too, right, A lot of it is luck. And I just feel so fortunate to be surrounded by the people that I did Because, again, it's, it's a I wouldn't say I don't want to sound elitist, but it's a different caliber of people and how they think and how they think they can change the world, and it rubs off on you whether you want it to or not, because your environment does play a role. And then and then, once I was in med school, I decided I wanted to go into ophthalmology. After witnessing the miracle of cataract surgery, I was like, wow, this five minute cataract surgery can change someone's life. Like that's what I want to do, and plus you get to sit down while you're operating. What could be better, Right? So so I just yeah, like for the next what? Like almost 10 years, that's what I spent pursuing.

Speaker 2:

So during that time, you know, I felt like a little bit of that entrepreneurial stuff, like because you had to be so focused to train, got a little bit pushed down. And then, once I started practicing and feeling a little more comfortable, a couple of years into my attending, it's like, well, now what? Right, Because you always hit. You think that once you reach the next level you'll be satisfied, Like, oh, once I finished med school, once I finished training, once I become an attending and make money, like I'll be satisfied. But it's not actually that. I think it's more like the progress towards it that makes fulfilled. And I think once I, you know, started practicing and felt comfortable in my own skin, practicing on my own, I was like, well, now what Right? And that's when all these other you know entrepreneurial stuff started sprouting again.

Speaker 1:

Sure, that had time to dream again. Yeah, I see, I see. So you know, being with your peers, though, these people who are in this environment of you know, who want to change the world and do what? Like what were some of the ideas or things that people wanted to change the world? Like, how do they want to do that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean all sorts of things like people would want to deliver, for instance like maternal care to third world countries, or start a program to provide clean water to another country, or just in their local communities. How can they serve these under localized communities or start a program to deliver eyeglasses, for instance, like so there is like they have this like drive that you know I'm not just a doctor like one on one, but I think I could drive a larger change and that's what I loved about the environment, because they just feel like you know they're almost invincible and they could do anything and you feel that way too.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I don't think. I don't think I consider myself invincible, but I feel like you know, whether it be small or large, I think all of us here, I think I think you know we're all in the same place. We are here to. We want to make a difference, we want to make an impact. We don't want to be invisible, right, and it doesn't necessarily mean that you need, say, a million followers on social media or whatever. It could be that those small, quote, unquote, small acts that you do, like reaching out to a friend who might need it that day, but you're still making an impact. And I think that's what we're all after in this life is to make an impact or to make a difference.

Speaker 1:

Hmm, and you found that thread to be true in Yale and Harvard. This is kind of like in these types of like you know, like you know prominent schools that it draws. I think it's you know.

Speaker 2:

I truly think it's universal to all humans. I don't think it's necessarily, you know, just like Yale and Harvard. I think maybe it's magnified a little bit at a young age for these students who are there just because of the caliber that they attract and the diversity. But I think anyone really has that desire to feel like they were born to do something great with their lives.

Speaker 1:

Right and I think you know if, like, you know, for your kids, like, how are you maybe helping place, like helping them be placed in environments where they can be surrounded by people like that, or like, do you want them to be surrounded by people like that? Because I think in some sense some people might hear this you know this feeling of maybe my life is more than just my day to day routine in the mundaneness of life, and then there's also another, I just feel like another version of that, which is to change the world. That's a little bit different than like I'm created for something more and you know people who want to change the world is the. Does that ever feel like, I don't know, a burden or exhausting, or it could just feel like it's so much to take on to change the world, or is that more invigorating to you? You know, I don't know, I'm just it's such a different way of, I guess you know, in the pockets of environments that we live in and you know being like you know, I was just telling you before I was in Cornelia, georgia, and being in this town, I was just thinking like wow, how different America just is because, like you know, for me being in New York City and then LA.

Speaker 1:

I mean these are just like some of the biggest and most competitive cities in the world. Now here I am in Cornelia, georgia, and like life is just so different there. So I guess I'm asking those questions out of curiosity because that is such a different mindset. And then this idea to change the world feels like wow, what a big undertaking that must be.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I guess the term change the world doesn't necessarily mean like I have to change your whole country or a whole village. I think changing the world just means that you're making an impact, whether it's small or big. Right like even say it for my children, how can you, how can you help someone at school, how can you like befriend one person who is sitting at the bench all alone right during recess? I mean, I think that's like quote changing the world is making an impact, like how can you think beyond yourself? Because I think when you shift the lens away from you, you're more grateful. If you stop saying like oh, woe is me, or look at my problems and say how can I help, like it just shifts your entire perspective. And I think that's what I mean by quote changing the world.

Speaker 2:

I see like changing the world is just, like you know, in, in small ways, how can you help someone? Or in big ways, right like you might have, you might influence millions of people and that's what, that's the gift that God has gave you and placed in your hands. But for some people it just might be that one person, maybe just in your family, right with your children, raising your children, that's changing something. That's changing next generation.

Speaker 1:

So I see it, yeah, yeah. Was there an experience you had in your life that really clarified that mantra for yourself? Because it's like you speak so clearly about that and like how this is you know such a good way to do it, you know such a good way to kind of live your life which is in service to others. Like, did you experience something in your life where that kind of like clarified for you?

Speaker 2:

I don't think it was one specific instance, but as a series of events.

Speaker 2:

Right, for instance, I thought, okay, I'm at this Ivy League school and if I could just make it to med school, like I'll be set.

Speaker 2:

So every time it was like the achievement was what I was after. But you realize, like once you hit those milestones, that are those goals, whatever you set for yourself, it's a sense of happiness and enthusiasm and ecstasy just for a while, but it's temporary, it's all temporary, and what is long lasting is contribution and like helping others. Those are the memories that I associate with like long lasting happiness or joy, because all those things that are temporary, even like okay, I'm going to make a certain amount of money, or you know I achieve this or that is great, you know it does provide happiness, but it's all temporary and it's great to have those things. But what is kind of long lasting, and I think what really feel like, you know, satisfy the human soul, is growth and contribution. And that's what Tony Robbins always teaches, just like you know, what separates right those people who are really happy, really joyous, is really growth and contribution is growing all the time and that you're contributing to others.

Speaker 1:

And I, you know, I want to go into how you've transitioned from, you know, just being just not just practicing as a doctor, but only practicing as a doctor, to now really kind of moving into more entrepreneurship. You're entering into new territories and I mean the question isn't like necessary, like I make an ask, like you know, what would you do with your self doubt, like or like do you have self doubt. But I think the better question really is, like, when that moment arises, like how do you talk yourself through that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, self-doubt is always there. I still have them daily, really. Yeah, the statistic is that we have 70 to 80 or even 90,000 dots a day. The majority of them are the same dots that we had yesterday and most of them are negative. How do you take those nine or 10 percent and use it to your advantage? Yes, I still have self-doubts every day, I think.

Speaker 2:

Am I good enough? I think that's the fundamental question that all of us ask, or who would listen to me? Why am I doing this? What if I fail? Yes, I think the better way, what has helped me and still a work in progress is just to get better answers, to ask better questions, instead of asking what if I fail? What if you ask? What if I succeed? What if I can help people? How can I succeed? Instead of asking yourself those questions that are going to give you those almost guarantee negative answers, how do you ask questions that will turn it around and give you positive solutions? Because your thoughts are really just conversations with yourself of questions and answers. If you ask better questions, you'll get better answers. Those thoughts is a translation of those questions and answers that you have of yourself.

Speaker 1:

I love that. It's so funny. When I was in this work trip I had dinner with a coworker of mine and I won't say his name because he's like please don't tell anyone. We had this conversation. He's just very like, he just tries not to put himself out there too much. He is just like the sweetest man. He's just one of those people, just such a warm energy, always smiling.

Speaker 1:

I asked him that question. I said how do you stay so positive? Because everybody has friction and disappointment and people annoy them. Some people are just able to always radiate this positive energy.

Speaker 1:

I think, just hearing even what you said, he is saying it's so easy to think negatively. So easy, everyone can think negatively. But how can you just start practicing thinking more positively? The more you practice that, the more that also kind of like we were talking about earlier you just open up for the energy shifts. I think hearing you even say how you manage self doubt when you ask those questions of well, can I do this? What if I fail? You're already going into that in a negative framework opposed to I don't know. I'm just having a moment right now. I'm just like I feel like it's so simple but it really is so hard to practice, to learn that, to have that muscle of how do I frame this in a positive manner, not for it to just be woo-woo, but that what we focus on is what we focus on.

Speaker 1:

It doesn't mean that's necessarily a truth, but I was looking into your company and I love the vision of your company. I thought it was partially also ironic because I know you do real estate. I don't know if you do other businesses too and we can definitely go into that as well but I know with your real estate investing company it's really to help people to have more time to essentially choose how they want to live their life, whether it's in their practice as a physician or as just your life as a person. But then I thought I was reading that that's an amazing vision.

Speaker 1:

I love that because that's part of also why I do so much of what I do, because I'm like I want to choose how to live my life and not let someone else dictate. As much as I can get that power back in my life. But then I'm just like man, this woman is a doctor and an entrepreneur, she's her life and you have kids and a family. I'm like your life is so full. I mean, I guess the question is is this how you want to live your life? Or you're kind of like this is the grind, so I can get to the place where I can create my life to look more how I want it to look like?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I don't think it's the grind. I don't necessarily like that term in general and I don't particularly like the term like work-life balance, because I feel like we're never in balance. We're always tiptoeing to try to get back in balance. But this is what I love to do and I think I found that kind of pieces that I like, because I still like practicing medicine, I still like seeing patients and doing surgeries, but at the same time I found I think I've brought back the entrepreneurial spirit that I've always been in, and in that I found it in real estate, of all things, which I would have never thought no one in my family invested in real estate or introduced. I was just kind of looking one day to see how I could quote earn passive income. That term can be taken, however it is, because I just wanted a little piece of my time back or at least to have options. I think that's what we're all looking for is just choices and options. It doesn't necessarily mean that everyone's going to quit their jobs and sit on a beach. I don't necessarily think that that's what freedom is. Freedom is the choice to live the way that you want to, and for me, right now, I feel like I'm doing what I train to do and what I want to do, but at the same time, I get to help so many people invest in real estate and help them understand how to invest in real estate.

Speaker 2:

I heard somewhere I think Edmai Let said who I follow a lot like you're most qualified to help the person that you once were, and that's where I was years ago just trying to figure out right, is this all? There is being a doctor and trading my time for money, and I discovered real estate as a way to earn passive income and now it's starting to acquire small businesses as a way to earn passive income. So that's really who I'm trying to help, particularly doctors, because medicine is on a very shaky ground of where we are. A lot of physicians are burned out Over 50%, 60% are burned out. But we need doctors and I think a lot of physicians go in with very altruistic intentions and they. But why is it that they're burned out? Is because of the system, of the lack of choices, and if you could just bring that beacon of hope back to them, my hope is that the face of medicine will change for the better.

Speaker 1:

So how does that work? Because if these physicians are already burned out, how do they then find the time or energy to then invest or pursue this other thing, which seems like takes now even more time out of the day that they don't have?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for myself, I'm a little bit more active in my real estate. But what? And certainly physicians can go active in buying their own properties et cetera. But the other route that I discovered along the real estate journey is something called passive investing through real estate syndications, where you don't have as much control because you're allowing someone who does this, hopefully full time, who finds the properties, finances it, manages it, and you kind of are the investor, but you still enjoy the benefits of real estate, the tax benefits to do it. And that's really how I guide a lot of physicians to invest in real estate, and I'm a proponent of it. You just have to find the right team to invest with because it doesn't take up more of your time. A lot of physicians and other busy professionals have families, have other obligations and they don't want to spend their free time managing toilets, tenants et cetera. So that's what I really help them do is how do you navigate this real estate passive investing space to get the benefits of real estate but not necessarily buy yourself a second job?

Speaker 1:

Wow, I see what's the ideal profile of the physician who would invest with you.

Speaker 2:

I don't know if there's an ideal profile.

Speaker 2:

I worked with physicians who are right out of training, to people who are nearing retirement, to people who have retired and are looking for an additional source of income. But I would say most physicians are probably five, 10 years out in their late 30s, 40s and are in the thick of things. They're in the thick of their careers, in the thick of their family, raising kids, and just want a little bit more breathing room, to say, hey, if I have the option to cut down to part time, to give up that shift, to give up that overnight shift or to give up that ER shift, just to have a little bit more wiggle room in my life and a little bit more balance. I think those are the physicians I talk to a lot. It's just hey. I don't necessarily think I want to completely quit, or I can't quit at this time because it takes time to completely replace a physician's income, but at least buy back some of their time, whether it be eight hours a week or whatever, and real estate can help them accomplish that.

Speaker 1:

It's kind of your advice for physicians who, physicians, have notoriously large student loan debt, someone who has this chunk of student loan debt and I think a lot of physicians also work so hard because they're like I have to pay off my student loan debt. So someone in that situation where I'm working because I have this huge chunk of debt but I also don't want to work as hard and this sounds amazing, but can I do it? How do you advise someone like that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think everyone's situation is different and certainly the advice is take it as advice is not necessarily like golden truth. I think it just depends what your goals are. For someone who has very low interest rate debt and you could earn more by, say, investing or just even putting in a savings account, why would you want to pay off like a 2% or 3% student loan debt? It's just about arbitrage. For someone who may have very high student loan debt interest rate and where we are currently, where you can't get as much as return, it might make sense to pay that off. But I personally don't like a lot of debt, so I paid it off very quickly.

Speaker 2:

There's certainly a sort of like a handicap for a lot of physicians who are starting out, because they start their careers usually in their 30s and they have a negative net worth coming out of years and years of training. But there's different ways to tackle the debt. One is just to tackle it head on and just get rid of it. The other is to arbitrage and maybe invest in things and use that passive income that you earn from the investments to pay off that student loan. It just depends what your terms are and what your goals are and also, just like a lot of times, it's not just about the numbers. This is about how you feel. Some people just hate debt and want to get rid of it and it gives them a piece of mind. Some people don't mind it. So a lot of money and investing and just finances is personal and that's why it's called personal finance, because everyone's situation is different and it's just what you think is right for you and your family and what would give you the best piece of mind.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, how did you stumble into real estate?

Speaker 2:

I was just literally looking like passive income and a lot of things that popped up were about real estate. So I learned about it and I was just fascinating. I was immersed in it. My husband thought it was just like a little phase, because I go through these little phases, but I was full on, went to courses, went to meetups, meetings. I was just fascinated by it and I just loved it. And I still love it.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I feel like I need to do a deep dive into your brain because I am just really loving your energy and also, even just in a brief conversation, just feel like you're just so engaged in the things you do and for myself, or other people who maybe don't have that same sort of a fire in their life, they want to create that life for them. It's like every day I'm working on something that's interesting and fun and exciting and there's no doubt you have a lot on your plate. You have all your jobs and investments and entrepreneurial path dreams, and then also you know you have your family and I'm sure you have your own personal life. How do you manage it all?

Speaker 2:

Well, as I said, I don't think there's really ever balance. Is always seasons, right? Some seasons I'm like I got a devote, I have a deal online, so, you know, I tell my husband like this is a pretty intense period, so I'm in a little bit off balance with you and the kids, like you're going to take up the majority of load. So it's never like a nice simple balance all the time. I think you go through seasons and some seasons I'm busy at work whereas, like you know, I'm on call. I have to be full on.

Speaker 2:

But I think, as long as you're doing something that you feel like is aligned with what you're meant to do and what you feel like you've been put on this earth to do, it doesn't feel burdensome. Does it feel tiring? Does it feel heavy? Sometimes, of course, right, we all go through those. So I think you just need to find the things that give you that fire. Not every day, right, it's not gonna be that way every day. I would say most of the time it's not that way. You would probably experience that fire, maybe like 10, 20%, and usually it's that you know every day boring work, that you go through that mundane work. But I think, as long as you have a bigger vision and a bigger why of what you're doing and why you're doing it, it just continues to drive you on those days where you feel like you don't wanna do it.

Speaker 1:

And sure I mean, how did you then develop that? Why for yourself? Because you know I think we're in the conversation it really is you know, when we started talking about college and this is, I think for most people no one really knows what they wanna do when they get to college. But you know, like you said, you know like I didn't have this like big grand idea and I was working towards it. It was just kind of like every little thing that kind of revealed itself to me. But I guess maybe in this phase of your life where you're like you know you need to defer that, why to keep you going, like, how did you then create that? Why for yourself, and what is that? Why for yourself?

Speaker 2:

For different aspects of my life is different. Right For my family is a different why you know for my company and then you know for my medicine. Stuff is a little different why? So I'll just take, for instance, with my real estate company, clear Vision Investing. My goal is to really help people, particularly doctors, have more choice.

Speaker 2:

That's really, in summary, that's what it is and that's what drives me, because I see where medicine is and how a lot of doctors just feel the lack of autonomy, that crushing sense of I don't have any choices, so I'm stuck in this job. I don't like it, but I have to pay the bills, and if I could just get them to see a little glimmer of hope of how they can hopefully achieve some choice, particularly real estate, I feel like I would have done my job. And you know, the grander theme of thing is just like how can we change medicine as a group of physicians and change the system a bit to make it more humane, to make it more so that doctors are in control and so that you know, I think it's better for the country, for the patients, for the doctors, and so that's the larger why of clear vision investing.

Speaker 1:

That's just an example.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's what keeps me going, it's like because I have this larger vision of what I wanna accomplish through it.

Speaker 1:

Right, it's almost like you know what you're doing is the mission to this greater vision you know of, like these are my, these are, this is my little circle that's contributing to this like larger circle of you know, like you said, change, like you're like I'm not out here to say I'm gonna change the whole healthcare system, but here's like one small way that I can kind of contribute to that as another option for healthcare workers.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, like even if it's just like one doctor that I'm talking to and I made them I opened up their eyes, or the aperture, you know, to what they're looking at, a little bit larger, or to let them see that there's this other option, like it just feels so good because it's like this light bulb that you see going off, just like it did for me years ago when I first saw this, when I kind of felt trapped, you know.

Speaker 1:

Mm, yeah, what do you feel like is the biggest barrier for physicians to kind of see the new light?

Speaker 2:

I think we've. It's almost like we've been in the system, right, I call it like kind of like a matrix, because you know you go through college, you go through med school and you go through training. You're kind of put in the system where you're like you got to do this, like you got to do this, and you're ingrained a certain way, right, you're like you have to, you know, write your notes a certain way. You I don't know you do things a certain way. So it's almost like you, you're put through this machine that when you come out it's not like you're a cookie cutter, but you almost have this mindset that this is all I know how to do. I just know how to doctor. What else can I do? Like, how else can I earn money? Like I can't leave this job, even if I have these other passions, you know, because I need this job and all I know how to do is to be a doctor.

Speaker 2:

And my hope is that I'm not advocating for doctors to leave the medical field. If that's what they want, great. And I think that's where, you know, financial freedom really comes into play. It's because once you take care of that piece, you know, money is not everything. I don't think it's money is just a tool. But once you try to take that piece off, it frees your mind to say, like what is my purpose in this world? What am I put here to do? And if it's 100% just being a doctor, that's totally cool. But it's your choice now and that's what it's just frees your mind to say, like what exactly am I here to do? Once you take that money piece away and that's why I'm a strong proponent for financial freedom. For that reason not necessary so that people could just like everyone quit medicine, because I don't think a lot of people want to do that in medicine it's just that they want to have choices. And once you kind of take that piece away, you kind of find your true purpose.

Speaker 1:

Mm-hmm yeah, Do you have other business ventures?

Speaker 2:

So I am starting this new arm called Clear Vision Acquisitions. It's we don't have like an official website yet, but basically, you know, the real estate market has kind of tightened up and what I see the opportunity is is really in small business right now.

Speaker 1:

What do you mean? The real estate business tightened up?

Speaker 2:

Well, the real estate market has really shifted, especially over the past year with the rising interest rates. So I'm talking more about, like, commercial apartment buildings is what we do, you know, for the syndication business. Residential is still very local, so some markets are still holding strong, some have taken a dip, but because of the rising interest rates, regardless, like, it's made real estate deals a little bit harder to do because the seller's expectation are still, like you know, from a year or two ago when they were getting these sky high prices. But now the price of money, the price of debt that you could get on these properties a lot higher. So even if the property is performing really well, that debt is so much higher that margin is really low. So a lot of deals don't make sense.

Speaker 2:

But with small businesses, because of the demographics, because of, you know, just baby boomers who own a lot of these businesses retiring, like there's a lot of opportunity there, so that once you see the returns it's just really hard to unsee it. So you know, a little bit of my focus has been shifting there because you know I'm an investor first and foremost, I see where the opportunities are and you know the other thing is like, you know, one out of four grocery stores are owned by, like, say, amazon or these big Clicomirants. So I really advocate for these small businesses, our neighborhood small businesses, because that's what keeps kind of the lifeblood and the personality the whole country going. And we were, you know, a country founded by ownership. Right, we weren't necessarily like employees that's kind of what the system has driven to but I feel like entrepreneurship and ownership is always the lifeblood of this country and that's what makes it great. So I'm a really strong proponent of small businesses and I see that, you know, these next couple of years, that's really where the opportunity is.

Speaker 1:

So how does your now business help support that vision? More so because you're saying you're acquiring these businesses and what do you do for these businesses?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, basically it kind of depends, like, on the business. Some people are want to be completely retired, so basically it's not allowing these businesses to die Because sometimes, like, if the owner is 70 years old and you know, their children don't want to take over these businesses, they'd rather be, say, tiktok stars or YouTubers. Right, I mean, there's really no succession plan. I mean, just in Japan I was reading that there's a whole government agency that's dedicated to matching these owners and someone who would buy it, because there's like this crisis of no one taking ownership or, you know, taking over these businesses, and I feel like a similar crisis quote unquote crisis is going on in this country, where you're going to have all these small businesses that have, you know, no succession plan. So, really, is you know, how can we take over some of these businesses and keep that small business sector alive?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's awesome. I love that you know for yourself like now that you're I mean in college you're you know it created an environment, right. And you said how important is it to be surrounded by certain people. Are you surrounded by I don't know more people like you today, or are you kind of an outlier in your community?

Speaker 2:

I seek them out, I guess that's the word. So I'm part of different masterminds and basically I pay to play, you know? I mean that's kind of the word. I mean I have my group of friends that are very like minded. But when I'm seeking out something, for instance, like in real estate, I I was in a bunch of masterminds and still am where I'm surrounded by people who think the same or thinking, you know, similarly.

Speaker 2:

And then businesses is the same thing, right, I seek out the people who are doing deals, so we're talking, so it becomes kind of your norm, right, because if you're just surrounded by, say, you know, your family, who might not understand it, or your coworkers, who doesn't understand why you can't just be happy being a doctor, like it's, it's hard to to really to really move forward at a faster pace. But when you surround yourself with these like minded people and that's why people pay for masterminds and stuff, and I get it, you know now that I'm in some masterminds, I get why. Why is worth it? Why is worth say you know, six figure, sometimes five, six figures is because you're you know, one contact can make all your money back, and really is about how do you get in those rooms where you're kind of like you know the least smart person right and you learn from the world else.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I mean, how do you read a bunch of like like? How do you stay sharp? Is it just by the doing of things, or are you? Are you reading and studying and like going on a listening to podcasts and stuff, or yeah, I do a combination.

Speaker 2:

I think how I learned best is just by doing, and then I kind of fill in the gaps. But I do read a lot. But I find that if you read too much, sometimes like you have all this knowledge, but knowledge is just potential power, that action to actually make it into something right, actually applied knowledge is actually power. So I think it's a combination you have to, you have to learn, you have to understand what you're doing. So I do read. I mean, it's not like I have a set amount of books I have to read like every week or every year. It's just kind of based on recommendations or what I feel like I need at that time.

Speaker 2:

And then I'm a big podcast geek, like I have a podcast, probably going on like every time in the car, or washing dishes or whatever.

Speaker 1:

You know. For I guess, like you know, knowing what you know now and you having children for your like your own children is like. I guess, like, how do you instill maybe your core values and your way of seeing the world because, kind of like what you said, like something, the light kind of went off for you where you're like, oh, like this is how I can like get my time back and engage in more of the things that I want to do. Knowing what you know now, how do you help nurture that with your kids? You know, because, because, like you said it, with school it is very, it is a system. You kind of like put them through the system. It churns them out into this way.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, it is a system. I mean, I think school has its place. My, both my children are traditional school there, in public schools. But I think children, I mean no one ever hands you a manual, so you're never prepared of how to do things right, and I'm still trying to figure it out, but what I found is a lot more is caught than taught. So, yes, I do talk to them about things, so so they catch little terms from me, like they're like, you know, my six year old the other day, we know, we just visited my parents in LA and so they were giving us like red envelopes right for their birthdays, like their future birthdays, and and my six year old was like Mommy, I'm going to take some money and I'm going to save some, I'm going to spend some and I'm going to invest some.

Speaker 2:

you know because I kind of like through those terms at her, maybe about a year ago, just to see because I heard that you know, money habits or money kind of thinking starts developing very early, like by age, like seven, most of us have developed our money habits or money mindset. So I was like, okay, I'm going to try to teach them early. But I think a lot of it is more like caught than taught. I'll give you another funny example.

Speaker 2:

Yesterday my daughter same daughter was like just imitating me. She was just making fun of me. She likes to like either pretend to be my husband or myself. And she she went and grab a bunch of receipts because I do the budget every month, like to see our spending. And so she was like I'm mommy, I'm going to pretend I'm, let me see how much we spend, let me put it in my budget, you know. So she catches words and you don't realize, like how much they catch just by watching you and your actions. I think, yes, you know having intentional conversations by also just by observing, like your actions, my actions, and so they see, they see what you're doing and I like them to see. You know, sometimes you've asked me like am I doing too much? I don't have time for them, but I want to see their mom like pursuing their goals and I think that's inspiring for her, because now she sees like what she could be, what could be done.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I do find that idea to be sort of like it is hard because you know they're like what you said. You know I'm sure someone's going to say like, well, you know, shouldn't you spend more time with your kid? Or something like that. Right and well, everyone's story is very different and like the circumstances surrounding it. But I guess I do think about that because sometimes I do them like, yeah, that makes sense, like it'd be so great if your mom is like you know, they're like all the time, you know.

Speaker 1:

And then, on the other hand, I grew up with my mom, you know, being the breadwinner of the family and like you know she, she is such a hard worker and she has this entrepreneurial spirit. She's. You know what they say I don't invest in the business, I invest in the person. Like my mom is one of those people where it's like I would like put all my money towards anything she does, because she's just that person. She was like I'll figure it out and I'll get it done. I didn't see my mom like like my mom didn't get home till like 738 o'clock at night, you know we had. Then she made dinner and then we all had dinner together. And looking back at my own experience, I don't think like I don't feel this like lost per se, but you know, I think me and my sister we have so much admiration for my mom are like, oh, like mommy can do this. And she look at her, she's just like, she just like gets it done. So there are some conflicting, I guess, like ideas about. About that I mean.

Speaker 2:

I think. I think it's that balance again right, that balancing act. I mean I definitely make time for my children. You don't get that time back, and so true. So on most days, except for my surgery days, like, I bring them to school every morning and I pick them up, I see them and I spend dedicated time in the evenings. On the weekends, most of the time is there, so untruefully, they sometimes don't want to spend that much time you know they want their alone time to.

Speaker 2:

So I think that time that you do spend at least what I found with my daughters is like more quality if you give them their undivided attention. When I put that phone down, when I put that computer down, like 30 minutes is more than enough for them.

Speaker 2:

They don't, they really don't want three or four hours, but yes you know, I think more than anything, the kids do want your time and I think as long as you give them that dedicated time and you're there for their important moments, they and they want to see. You know you working like. I try to integrate a lot of what I do and bringing them along. Like I was at a real estate conference last year in Florida and I brought the whole family along and you know they went to Disney World for part of the day and then we met up.

Speaker 1:

so I try to integrate a lot of what I'm doing with my family so they're yeah, yeah, no, I love that and I think that's what I think that's why it's like this. I don't know. I guess it's just more of a parenting thing of just like everyone to each their own and it doesn't always look a particular way, you know, and like you're, you're absolutely right that it's. It really is that kids want your time, but I think it really is that the quality time that they they want with you, I mean, do you feel any pressures of like what you feel like your role should be? I mean, I have, I don't know.

Speaker 1:

Sorry, I'm an overthinker, so I guess I feel like there's a part of me that doesn't like to ask these questions because I don't want to automatically assume that, like you know. Anyways, okay, I'll ask my question, which is, you know, as a woman and like as a mom and as a minority, like, do you feel, like I don't know, this feeling of like I want, I want a role model or I want someone else who can kind of like validate me in that way, or, like you know, feeling like I might have this imposter syndrome and I feel out of place because maybe the room doesn't look like me? I mean, do you have those types of feelings?

Speaker 2:

I think all of us do, including myself is like do I belong here? I think all of us, at one point or another, have asked that. Including myself is like do I rule, can I?

Speaker 2:

you know, like I was just out of speaking at a conference last month and I was about to speak on stage and I look around like, do I really have the authority to speak to these people? Like some people have much larger portfolios or have so much more experience, like, who am I to speak to them? But you know, as back to the how do you what? What dialogue are you having your with yourself? Right, and if I, if I think that way is more like thinking about myself again, right.

Speaker 2:

But if I take that mirror off myself and I reflect it back, it's like, well, how can I help them? What? What can I say today that I think would help people? Like, how can I help someone else? Instead of thinking about me like, oh gosh, how would I look? You know, I think it's that same thing when dealing with that imposter syndrome is just like, well, the people who are in this room are meant to be in this room at this time for a reason and they might take away something for what I have to say. So it's just all about like, how do you frame it? How do you like frame the situation and what you're trying to convey?

Speaker 1:

I don't know that quite. Answer yeah, yeah, no, it definitely does. I mean looking back. I mean, you know, being where you are now, where you couldn't have envisioned, like being where you are today, like I don't know. Do you ever like stop and think like oh, I don't know if I'm here, or like how did I get here? Kind of a types of like feelings or questions to yourself?

Speaker 2:

I do, I do. I mean, it's just amazing how life has all painted out and how the chapters of the book that's still ongoing has been written and the characters that you know, for instance, have come and gone no friends who have come and gone, but you know. But the main characters are still there, which is my family and the people around me who are important to me. But it is quite amazing, like, looking back, like to think, you know, I could have been in what? La all my life, right to to now, having gone up and down the East Coast for my training and then now in Atlanta. Of all places, I would have never seen myself down myself. But here I am and I'm super happy. And you know, it's just amazing how life takes you in twists and turns that you don't expect, but it all comes together and you know, god always has a plan and new from the beginning, you know.

Speaker 1:

Well, just erupting that there's two questions. I ask every guest, but I added a new one for this episode. This will be the first episode where I'm adding a new question. So the first question is what do you do for play or for fun?

Speaker 2:

I love to run. So, usually every morning I run and I've done that since I was a teenager. I was on the track and field team and like that's just been my habit.

Speaker 1:

How many miles do you run in the morning?

Speaker 2:

It's very great because when I was pregnant I could barely like make two miles. I mean, by the time I was like 39 weeks, I was still trying to run, oh my.

Speaker 1:

God, I was really like walking.

Speaker 2:

But I did like exercise almost up to what I delivered, oh my. God yeah like either, like walking usually, but usually I try to get in about four or five miles.

Speaker 1:

Cool, and what would you tell your younger self?

Speaker 2:

Um, I guess, just have faith. You know, sometimes there could be so much preparation and all the knowledge that you could acquire, but all of that doesn't really matter. At some point you have to have faith and take that leap Because at some point all that preparation, all that knowledge will not be enough and it requires that faith to take that step, to jump off that cliff. So that would kind of be my advice to a younger self. It's just like just try it. You have to have faith to try it and you're not going to have that 10 steps laid out.

Speaker 1:

If I can just be totally frank, I think when I meet people like you who have just this incredible credentials of Yale, harvard and I know that's not something you're like trying to like brag about or say like, hey, look at me, I went to these schools. I mean it is obviously very impressive. And like you went to Yale, you went to Harvard, and you're like I'm a doctor and I have this. You know, I've created this business, and I think like oftentimes, like I can be very intimidated by people like that, because it just seems like they always know what they're doing and they're just like doing it. And I think I really love hearing from your story of that.

Speaker 1:

There is, you are also normal to having these very normal human experience, like you know. I know that sounds obvious, but I think sometimes, when we are like our subconscious doesn't think that way, our subconscious does look at other people and just think like well, that person doesn't have insecurities or self doubt, they just know what they're doing. But what I think I'm hearing from your story and maybe from other people who are like you, it's not that they're void of these feelings or thoughts, but it's confronting them head on and having almost not to be corny, but like having a strategy of like, how do I deal with these types of feelings? So I even love that you said have faith to you. Know that you said that about what you tell your younger self.

Speaker 2:

I'm just like I think those, those thoughts and the self self. You know, self doubt, that's the word I'm looking for and all the all the things that we go through is just common to the human experience, whether someone went to Harvard or some, or there's someone's the president, whether someone you know, mother Teresa probably has these same thoughts as well. I think it's just unique to the human experience. Whether you're young or old, whether you're black or white, whether you know, whatever religion you are, it is just how you manage it right, because you know, as I mentioned before, most of our thoughts are the same thoughts that we had the day before. So it's just. How do you, how do you arbitrage that subset of thoughts, that nine 10% of thoughts that are new, that are different, and use it to your manage, and how do you frame things so that it can help you instead of, like you know, be a detriment to to where you want to be?

Speaker 1:

I love that. Okay, so this is my new question, which I'm going to see how it goes. But the new question is what do you want to tell yourself in five years?

Speaker 2:

Hmm, You're going to be a new person there's. There's a different you know. Back to the identity. There's gonna, you're gonna. You're gonna see another self of yourself. You're going to see another self of who you are in five years.

Speaker 1:

Do you have a idea of hope of what that could be, or is just like? I'm open to whatever it's gonna look like?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think I leave everything with open hands. I really do. I mean, I don't know, you know I could, I can make plans, but at some point you're just like you know. You just leave your hands open to what God has for you and as long as you you're following that path, that your intuition, you know, and having that faith, like, is going to lead you in the right direction. And there's gonna be twists and turns, right. But I really don't know where I'll be in five years.

Speaker 1:

I love it.

Speaker 2:

And I hold, I hold. You know those life and what I think will look like very loosely, because I know that where I thought I was going to be you know five years ago, to where I am now it looks very different yeah.

Speaker 1:

And you know if I'm sorry. If I can ask you one more question, what? How do you process? This is kind of a big question, but like how do you process your own mortality, if that is something you do contemplate.

Speaker 2:

Well, I'm a Christian, so I believe that everything, everything on this earth is temporary, including our bodies. But what lives is our soul. So you know, this body is temporary, it's going to be gone. So I do believe that all of us have a soul and that's going to live on. So that's how I process mortality.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but I guess, in all the things that we're doing in this lifetime, now in this world, now, how does it contribute to that? If I'm going to be just a soul like, why work so hard or try to do all of these things, knowing this is temporary?

Speaker 2:

It's that, it's that impact right Of why, why we were born, or why God placed us here in the first place. You know, each of us has the plan, or he has a plan for our life is what I believe and we're placed here to fulfill that plan. We don't know right, steps one to ten, as we said, but I think he kind of guides us, you know, towards where we're meant to be and in the end, it is our soul, right, and part of our soul is the impact we've made, the feelings that we've left with other people. That's what's going to matter. So, you know, the house, the cars is nice, right, it's going to bring you and we should enjoy those things. I'm not saying like deprive yourself, but those things are going to be temporary. So you know, we're going to have bodies. You know, however we want to see it, it's going to be temporary as well. So so my, my feeling towards mortality is there's only one. You know truth at the end is that we're all going to die.

Speaker 1:

Right, right right.

Speaker 2:

That's just how it's going to end. We know that how the story is going to end. We don't know what time or what day, but what I do know is our souls live. So you know, try to protect that really, really strongly.

Speaker 1:

I love that. Okay, now we will. We will end it there. Thank you for listening. Remember there is no one way. So go and make your way. Join us next week as we keep making way. Did I say way too much? Oh, bye.