Making Way

Introverted Entrepreneur

• Melissa Park / Namhee Han • Season 4 • Episode 62

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Ever felt like a stranger in a familiar land? Our guest, Nam-hee Han, a seasoned marketing director and the founder of Be-Tween, knows that feeling all too well. As a Korean immigrant, she has battled and transcended the complexities of racism, identity, and cultural differences in her journey. 

Namhee's life is a captivating tale of resilience, grit, and the pursuit of a dream - from her upbringing in the bustling city of Seoul, Korea, to her move to the US for college. Hear about her experiences navigating the choppy waters of being both Korean and American in a society that sometimes struggles with accepting diversity. 

But the journey doesn't just end there! In an era where the digital world reigns supreme, Namhee shares her insightful perspective on parenting tweens. She highlights the importance of striking a balance between granting children access to technology and teaching them about boundaries. Namhee also discusses the challenges involved in navigating social media as a marketer and the immense responsibility that comes with creating content that is both positive and empathetic. Join us on this incredible journey with Namhee Han.

👉 All Things Namhee Han:

⭐️ Try Be-Tween for your tweens and use promo code “MAKING WAY30” for 30% off your purchase! (I do not receive any commissions from your purchase, Namhee wanted to extend this discount specially for our listeners 😁)
 

Thank you for listening!

Do you know someone or have a topic you would like featured on the podcast? Leave a review and let me know! I'd love to hear from you!


Melissa:

Doesn't it look like some people have it all figured out? At times, I can feel insecure or intimidated by my perception of those people who just seem to be quote unquote winning at life. When all those feelings start brewing, I think we can add some perspective to that and ask ourselves does this person know why we were born, what happens when we die and how we should spend our time in between those two events in life? We're all out here figuring it out. Today's guest, nam-hee Han, is an experienced marketing director and founder of B-Tween, a skimpy airline for queens. She never planned on starting her own company, but in this episode we'll learn why she did and the story behind why her company is a love letter for her tween children. This is Making Way Alrighty. Well, shall we dive in and get to your story? I'd love to hear all about it, so maybe we should just start at the beginning, which is just where are you from? Are you from LA or are you from?

Namhee:

No, I'm not from LA. I was actually born and raised in Seoul, korea. Oh really.

Melissa:

Oh, wow, yes, Wait. So how old were you when you moved to the States?

Namhee:

I moved to the States when I was in college or I moved for college.

Melissa:

Wait, what Hold up?

Namhee:

There's not an ounce of an accent or like Well, that's because I went to an international school in Korea, so you know like our curriculum was, like you know the curriculum here, where you know, I took AP classes.

Melissa:

I took SATs.

Namhee:

So it was. You know, think of it as an American school in Korea. You know, the people that I went to school with are all like foreign-born citizens, you know, in Korea for whatever reason you know, maybe their parents' jobs or what have you, and so yeah, so it was also interesting growing up in Korea going to an American school, because there's that duality of being the Korean American living in Korea going to an American school. But you know, once you step outside of school you're speaking Korean, but once you're in school you're speaking English.

Melissa:

All right, Wait. So are your parents American.

Namhee:

My dad is, so he's a US citizen. And so that's why, you know, I ended up there.

Melissa:

I see so as a kid. Do you identify it as more American or more Korean, or is it like a different hybrid of those two?

Namhee:

You know, I actually didn't think much about my identity as Korean or American until I came to the States. You know Korea, when I, you know, lived in Seoul, it was still very homogeneous. Where you know you live with Koreans. Like a majority of the country are Koreans, like you don't see colors of the rainbow when you walk on the streets. It is very much like Koreans live in Korea.

Namhee:

And then you know my friends, some of my friends, they weren't all Koreans. So, like you know, people would kind of sometimes like stare at us or look at us because we can't be speaking English, and so there was like a little bit of okay, like I'm not the same. I'm not like 100%, 100% from here, which is interesting because I was still born and raised in Seoul, korea, but I felt like I was still an outsider because I went to an American school and you know Asians have the same right, like FOB, fresh of the Moon right. We're like oh, like so-and-so is a fob about, like people who speak with accents. But you're like, well, actually aren't the foreigners fobs in Korea because technically you're the one coming off a plane or boat or whatever it may be to Korea.

Namhee:

Right, I really like like trying to put myself into a box of am I Korean or am I American? Really came when I went to college, because that was such a different experience. Oh where did you go to school? I went to Syracuse in upstate New York.

Melissa:

Oh wow, Very different.

Namhee:

Yes, it was a dramatic change. I mean, that's the first time where you know, I think when you're younger you hear about racism and you learn about it or not even really learn about it, like you read about it here and there but it doesn't quite register because you've never really witnessed it. And then when I went to college, I was like okay, like this is racism. You know, it's not as explicit as calling someone, you know a name, it is really just a tone and feel. And yeah, it was different. And that's when I was like okay, like this is racism, like this is. And so that's when you're kind of like you ask yourself a lot more about your identity, because everyone else is asking about your identity. They're like what are you? Where are you from, where are you really from?

Melissa:

Right, Is there a story of like that feeling that you're describing, where it's not explicit, Like necessarily? I mean sometimes it is people hurling explicatives and names at you but, like you said, it was the way you were treated. Do you remember a story or an incident that kind of depicts that?

Namhee:

Yeah, you know, I've never felt invisible before where, like you, completely, just people just kind of completely dismiss you. And you know, we were in a group introducing ourselves to you know, another group of people, and I remember we were going in a like an order and this person skipped right over me and at first I was like okay, like maybe it's a mistake, but things like that started happening more frequently to a point where I was like, okay, there's something here where and it's interesting, because Syracuse, some people, they came to college and they're like this place is so diverse and like Syracuse is not diverse and so like I don't know where you come from, like where you hail from, but Syracuse is not diverse right.

Namhee:

And then you know people would stare at you Like I had I had, like I was in a sorority with and it was an Asian interest sorority, so obviously we're all Asians.

Namhee:

And when we walked down together, like even near like our, I guess, college square, whatever you want to call it, the little town, people would stare at us, people would say stuff you know one time, like we were walking down and we had some guy go, ooh, asian girls. And you know we would be walking down and you would hear Ni Hao, ni Hao, like Konichua, just things like that were well, that's more like blatant, like that is racism, like of why are you, konichua and me, but I, yeah. But then there are the ones like where people just stare at you, or we've even had some people take pictures of us. We went to you know so many stories we went to a restaurant and we were all sitting and we order something and the server like put the wrong thing in front of our friends and there were like that's not what she ordered. She said, oh, I'm sorry, you all look alike. So I just it was a mistake.

Melissa:

Oh my God Geez.

Namhee:

And so I mean those are just like snippets of, you know, hundreds of stories that just accumulated in the four years that I was there. Where you, you're kind, yeah, and I keep, I tell my kids I'm like, you know, I was born in the wrong time, because I feel like the especially Korean culture has made its way, you know, to the US with like K-pop, the dramas and you know, just culturally, like there's more awareness, yeah, awareness of like, oh, like Korean food, right, whereas back then it was really the understanding was are you from North Korea or South Korea?

Namhee:

if they knew more about the country and it was. It was just kind of like, oh like, okay, like you're China, no, not China but yeah, I mean it's funny because, like I like everything you're saying.

Melissa:

I'm like, yeah, heard that before, you know, and exactly what you said where it's.

Melissa:

I mean, again, sometimes it is really some people just being super explicit at you and it's you know, and hateful comments or whatever.

Melissa:

But then a lot of the times it's those non-obvious, obvious things of you know the way people just treat you and I don't know about you but like, maybe it's different because I mean, anyways, I guess I don't know if this happens to you, but sometimes even now as an adult, I sometimes I kind of like braced myself for, oh, is something like someone's gonna say something kind of off-putting, like I don't know.

Melissa:

There's like this like feeling that goes through my body where I'm anticipating someone to kind of treat me in a different way and kind of ask those like you know, offensive questions of like you know, I don't know, like where are you really from? Or like you know, when it's like I'm American, yeah, like I love Saved by the Bell and you know all these shows we all grew up watching and stuff like that. But I guess, like in college you said that you know I loved how you phrase it, which was you had to think about your identity, like you never had to think about your identity, but you had to because people started asking you about your identity. So in that like during that time, do you remember what, like what internal dialogue you were having with yourself about yourself?

Namhee:

Um, yeah, I think it's. You know, when, when someone looks at people like in general, right, when people are looking in a group and say, like you're in the other and check you off as other and I was very much the other in Syracuse, you, because they already treat you differently you have to find a way to okay, like then what does that mean? And you know, obviously you internalize some of that and I think part of that coming out of what gets internalized is sometimes anger, because it's like no, like I'm a person, like I go through the same things that you do, but you know, somehow you've put me in another box, like I've never even said I'm Asian before. You know before coming to the.

Namhee:

US. Like, oh, like, what does that even mean? Like, asia is such a huge continent to like what Asian, right? But you come here and when I was in Syracuse, it's like, no, like, you're Asian. So like, what Asian are you? It's like, oh, okay, well, you know.

Namhee:

But then the funny part is, though, even if you told them you're Korean, that meant nothing to them, because it's not like people knew anything about Korea. So whether I told you I was Japanese, korean, chinese, it, it doesn't matter, because it's like, at the end of the day, like, what does that mean to you? Right, like, because you don't know the difference between those countries, you don't know the difference between the cultures of those countries. So me saying I'm a Korean, what does that mean? And so, actually, that's when it became, and I actually made a lot of non Korean friends being in Syracuse, because, one, there weren't that many Koreans, but being in an Asian interest. Already, you know, we were like, you know we had Chinese, japanese, filipinos, so on and so forth, right. And so I was able, I, like my friends were diverse. In that sense we were diverse, we were a diverse Asian group, right, which is crazy, right, because from outside, looking at there, like you, all look the same.

Namhee:

But yeah, I mean, we've been literally told that you all look the same. But we were like, no, we're different, you know like it. And so that's when I actually started more like the. The, the experience became more like who am I defining myself as Asian American and what does that mean, and what does it mean to be an Asian American in the US? So I think that's what I was going through at that time, because I was grouped as Asian. I had to identify and find what that Asian American experience meant.

Melissa:

Yeah, and what did it? What did it mean for you? Like, because you have such a different, you have such a unique experience where you know you grew up in Korea. So there's also like a very deep connection to like at the end of the day, I am still also Korean and Korean.

Namhee:

American.

Melissa:

So I have roots in both places, even though I've, like, not really been to Korea but, like you know, growing up in Korea, where you know you grew up there, but you grew up as even an American, as an American in Korea and now you're an American in America. Yeah, like you, you are the same, like you're going, you know, in between these places. Yeah, how did that shape you? Or how did you decide, like, who, who you are, what was important to you?

Namhee:

I think there was always a little bit of like lacking a sense of belonging, because in Korea I sometimes felt like I did 100% belong there either, because I wasn't like the other Koreans, like I was still in American schools speaking English, like, and then when I came to the US it was you know, I'm from Korea, but you know and everyone thinks you're other, I mean whether or not you grew up here or not.

Namhee:

I think Asians to some degree kind of go through that identity of like people always let labeling as like oh, but you can't really be from here, right, like you. And actually I tell my kids this all the time of, because they go to Korean school and they hate it. But I tell them you know you live in LA where it's more diverse. But you step outside of LA, let me tell you, when people look at you guys, they're not going to think you guys are American. They're going to ask you where you from, where are you really from? They're like what? What does that mean? You know we're, we're born in Pasadena, you know totally.

Namhee:

You're like oh, my gosh, I like you know the way that acts like I mean, like they love Korean food and they you know. But I do try to teach them that you know, like your, your identity is a little bit more complex than just saying you're American because, unfortunately, like that's not what other people are going to think of you when they see you.

Melissa:

Sure, it's interesting because, like even for me, growing up in New York City, where this is like the most diverse, the biggest city in the world or, like you know, most prominent city, considered one of the most prominent cities in the world and you know I mean growing up here and experiencing so much racism and feeling like an outsider, and it is confusing as a kid because I still remember, even when I was young, when you know I was picked on for the way I looked and like I couldn't understand it because this is obviously the face I grew up with.

Melissa:

I'm just like I don't understand what they're seeing, or is there like spinach in my teeth or something. But yeah, even in places like like New York that you still kind of get that. And by the same time, like you know, being born and growing up here, you feel so connected to the country, the culture, and then it is disorienting when people still try to put you as other and treat you as other. But you know for your, your parents and sounds like maybe more your dad, why, why was he in Korea in the first place? Or like, why didn't he stay in America? Like, why did he come? Like, come to Korea to work.

Namhee:

Yeah, it was. I mean, he really happened to go to Korea for work. So that's he, you know, ended up, you know, starting a company in Korea, and so that's that's why we ended up there. He, you know, finished his schooling here. Actually, he was born and raised in Korea, but he went to the States and did his schooling and then went back.

Melissa:

So yeah, did he have the same path for you too?

Namhee:

Yeah, well, I mean, I don't go back to Korea, is that what you kind?

Melissa:

of are. Is that what? Maybe you and your family were kind of thinking that you go to school in Korea and then come back. I mean, go to school in America and then come back to Korea.

Namhee:

No. At the time it was very much like I mean, there's definitely less of this now, where people think that you know you go to the US and the US education system is better, you know, like there's definitely less of that thinking now in Korea. Nowadays they're like oh, don't go to the States. I heard that People are like oh, no, no, no.

Melissa:

Oh, interesting.

Namhee:

Yeah, but now, but back then it was still like no, like go to a good school in the US and you're going to live there, which you know. I mean I'm here and I like, I like it here, but I do wonder what it would have been like if I just never, you know, left and you know I just lived in Korea because I mean, when I visit Korea now I'm like, oh, I like it here, but I can't live here.

Melissa:

But that might also be because I'm so used to living here. Right, what about it?

Namhee:

I mean it's really busy. It's like New York City Like. If you like the New York City, if you like the city life, then sure, but it feels so like it's busy all the time. You know, like in Korea. It's just like a very busy city life. Everything is so congested in a good way. But I, just right now, with two kids, I like my suburbs.

Melissa:

I guess did you think about applying to school in like? Did you apply to schools in Korea?

Namhee:

No, I didn't, because I went to an American school. I could only apply to schools out here.

Melissa:

Why has that shifted in Korea about, like, not going to the States? Because I kind of heard that through the grapefines a little bit too that like Koreans aren't so keen about necessarily going to America, where that was such a big deal back in the day. But what's changed about that perception?

Namhee:

I think you know it's just again through the grapevine for me too. But people, it seems like people like everything in Korea is so easy, like you can hire someone to do something and it doesn't cost you arm and a leg. Like it, everything in Korea is almost like served up to you, like if you didn't want to. Like I feel like you don't have to lift the finger, and that might be just like my perception of it, but I just feel like I don't know Korea. Like would they deliver everything right, like all hours of the day, Whereas here, you know, it's a bit of a grind. Like you have to do everything yourself. Yeah, even like in Korea, like hiring someone to help you out is not it's an obvious thing. Like you do it. Like you don't. You know, having someone to come clean your home, however many times a week, is not thought of as anything. As like, oh, like you must be well off or whatever.

Melissa:

Right.

Namhee:

Like just do it right, whereas here it's like that's a luxury. Yeah, exactly so it's a. It's a different, you know. But like when my mom because my mom's in Korea she comes here and she's like you're just like running around all day just grinding, you know you don't have time to sit, you know.

Melissa:

So, going back to Syracuse, what did you study? What did you study in college?

Namhee:

I studied television, radio and film. Yeah. So that was my one major, and then my other major was entrepreneurship and emerging enterprises.

Melissa:

Okay, so what was the reason you took? You studied those two majors.

Namhee:

So that's also a little bit of like oh so naive.

Melissa:

Aren't we all at that age?

Namhee:

You know, really, like when I left high school in Korea, I really did think like, oh, if I work hard at it, I can achieve anything. Like there was that mindset and there was just something really appealing to me about, yeah, like production. I don't know why, at what point, like honestly, I don't even know what the trigger was, but I was like, yeah, like I want to do that, I want to do television right on film. I mean, that was the major's name, so I wasn't like I'm going to do television right on film.

Namhee:

I want to do something like about like I want to yeah, like I want to do, I want to produce whatever it is Like. I didn't even really understand what I went into producing, but it was just like, oh, like I think that would be really cool. It's 17 year old, 60 year old. What were you thinking? Right? And then the other business was actually the other major was business. So I went in as a double major and then I actually ended up declaring entrepreneurship later on. But you know, when I actually got to Syracuse and I kind of started realizing the racism and as an Asian woman, it is incredibly hard to break into the entertainment industry. Like I didn't realize at the time, like that was the case because no one, no one sat you down to tell you like this is a difficult industry to break into, one in general in life. But as an Asian woman, like good luck.

Namhee:

Yeah, Exactly, and no one, you know, no one told me that right Like I wish, even as a woman, it's a hard industry. Right Like maybe, but it was just, and I think the reality hit me as I was going through school and when I was going to move back out here I was like no, I can't, I can't do this.

Melissa:

So, yeah, like did you move to LA to pursue a career in film and television?

Namhee:

No, I moved to LA because I was like I'm done with New York. I said I'm done with upstate New York, I am done with New York, I don't want to be on this side of the coast, I want to go to the West side because when I was growing up, when I did go back and forth, but, like when I visited the US, it was always LA, because I had. Yeah, I have family here. So it was like, yeah, I'm going back to LA, I can't live here.

Melissa:

And so did you move right after college to LA. Yeah, and well, that's actually kind of perfect for your major because, like all the major studios are in LA.

Namhee:

Yeah, but you know, when you first start working out, you don't start working for the major studios, pick up PA jobs and even getting trying to get that was like so incredibly hard because you need to know someone or you need connections.

Namhee:

And one thing that I am really horrible at, even to this day, is networking. I hate talking to strangers. I am very introverted, like if I, like when I was doing my MBA you know they have those networking hours Like I just want to melt into the wall because I do not want to. And honestly, I think part of that is like I've never really I think I've always been introverted. But what amplified that was my college experience of feeling like you're invisible and people not taking stock in what you're saying, almost having to feel like you have to validate yourself, or it just a lot of different complicated feelings of the four years in college where I felt like I was treated that made me even shrink like, shrink back even more, where now I just I don't like talking to strangers, just because overall I think that I think I do have some trauma from my college years.

Melissa:

Yeah, yeah, I mean. I mean, how could you not like those kinds of experiences are not small experiences but like, I guess, as an introvert, and have it, you know, with a little bit of that? Yeah, I guess, yeah, mainly as an introvert how, how do you, I guess, like, how do you navigate work, life, and I mean pursuing an MBA and being ambitious as a person, and especially in the states, because the US does value extra version, right, people who are more outgoing and, like you said, networking and the loudest voice in the room doesn't mean it's necessarily right, but you know people who are more outspoken and then, that way, how did you like, or how do you navigate life, career, as an introvert, while still pursuing the things you want?

Namhee:

Yeah. So at work, I would say it's a bit of a different side to a point where, like I remember I was telling one of my court because, yeah, I'm introverted. She's like no, you're not introverted. I'm like, no, I am introverted, you know, when I have something to talk about. So, whether it is at work and it is about my work, or you know your expertise or something that I know, that I, you know, like I have something to say, or you know there's a conversation that needs to happen, then I am definitely not like shy about it.

Namhee:

Where it gets to be where my introvert side really comes out is when it's like it's just making small talk, so like it's one thing. If we were sitting in a conference room talking about you know like, oh, here's what we're going to be talking about, like maybe you know like marketing tactics for, or marketing strategy for, a brand, then yes, like definitely have something to say. Whereas if we were at a happy hour with the company and I see everyone around me and I don't know anyone, I'm not going to, I'm not, I'm probably not going to be the one to walk up to people and say, hi, nice to meet you, because that, like, I don't know, I just I can't do small talks.

Melissa:

What is that? Okay, so I'm curious because I am I'm an extroverted individual here. So just to peek into a little bit of you know, your world, what's the difference between that, like, what's the experience you're having internally where, okay, we're going to talk about marketing, you're going to, I'm going to chime in, I'm going to give you my opinions and things like that. But when it comes to small talk, like what are you feeling or experiencing inside that you're like I don't want to, I can't contribute to this type of conversation.

Namhee:

Yeah, I don't know. I think I don't like too much. I don't like sharing too much of my personal set up self with random strangers, which is funny because I'm we're having this conversation. You and I just met, but you know, but yes, I just I don't like, I don't like that. I don't like that forced conversation like where you feel like you have to talk to someone. Yeah, I don't know, it just makes me really uncomfortable.

Melissa:

Interesting, but one is it more in a group or one on one or like uncomfortable feeling that you're having?

Namhee:

I don't know like it's like you feel like sometimes, like you feel, well, I mean a networking, you know, like a networking event, you should be talking to someone, yeah. So you're like, oh, but I don't know if I really want to talk to anyone.

Namhee:

I mean I probably should, I probably could get something out of it, or like not even out of it, but like I could need someone interesting, and you know, but I don't know, I just. I think also part of it too is like if you've, if you've had a lot of not so great experiences with people, where you meet people and you befriend them and then that doesn't turn out so well, like I think that all kind of plays into your psyche of how you approach people in general.

Namhee:

And I think that also plays a part into my overall just yeah. Like so, when I go at even you know, I we're talking about church earlier like even to a church that I've been to, I mean I don't know how long. How long has it been? 2008, so like 2007. 2008, so it's like 15 years it's still like hi, you're far away. I mean, there are people that I would I like talking to, but the foremost part is just like hi, yeah. So I think sometimes, when I do talk to people, they were like really surprised, like oh, you've been at this church for that long like I've never really.

Namhee:

I don't really talk to people.

Melissa:

Sure, yeah, I mean, I'm with you. I don't love small talk to because in after a while it's just like I can't keep up with it. I think for me when I talk to people, it's like I don't mind the small talk in the beginning, but part of me is like using that small talk to find a point of connection to then like go deeper with, because like, if we don't go not necessarily deep a more substantial conversation it is I tune out to, I'm just like I can't have this conversation. I don't know. It's just like what do we? What are we even talking about right now? What's a little bit of the backstory, of why you decided to start this brand?

Namhee:

Yeah. So this one's a little interesting because I was taking a break from my last job. It was, you know, at the height of the pandemic, where everyone was working from home and kids were home, everyone's home, and you are literally doing everything, right, you are, and I feel like during the pandemic, your workload at work also, just I don't know there was more to do because, like, the fact that you weren't commuting is somehow rolled into your working hours and I, our headquarter, was in Geneva, and so you know I would be up, like having calls at like 7am, even pride, like sometimes earlier than that if needed, and then you work, work, work, work, work, and then, oh, like Geneva's up again. So you're talking to you know what I mean like they went and slept and they came back to work and you're talking to them again.

Namhee:

And so it was never ending and just yeah, and like a lot of people were quitting. There were a lot of transitions, so you're taking up a lot more, you're taking on a lot more work In addition to your kids being home, and and you're like you're now a cook, right, because before, like they could at least go to school and they would have lunch elsewhere, but now you're like doing breakfast, lunch, dinner while you're on a call, while, and so it. I think that it kind of hit a breaking point. I mean, there are other things that happen that work too, but it they just lifestyle plus work. Just I was like, okay, I need a break. And it's during that break where I spent more time like with my kids, where I was like watching them a lot more.

Namhee:

You know, this was right when they started going back to school with masks on their faces, and then I think I was like content for not working for about a four to six weeks and I was like, okay, what's next? Which is like crazy, because I was like, no, I needed to like take a real break and just not think about anything. But I was like, oh, no, like I am bored, like what do I? What can I do? And then, yeah, so kids went back to school, they were wearing masks and then they started come like, they started getting these acne like mastv, where they're getting little white bumps, and you're kind of like, okay, like what is this like? It's not. I don't want to put you on acne products because or put any products on you because it's too drying and too harsh.

Namhee:

You know, at the time my kids were, I think, eight and 10. So I'm like, oh, I don't like. But then, like, this isn't exactly a job for baby lotion, and you know what, what can I get for you guys? And I've worked in beauty. So when I was at PNG, I was, I was in beauty and so I felt like, honestly, there are, there are so many products out there Like I just have to research, you know, and I'll be able to find it. And, surprisingly, I wasn't able to come up with a lot of alternatives of like what can I really offer my children? And so I was like, oh, this is really interesting. Like you know, this is the age that nobody really talks about, because you have your baby years, where all the moms are like, oh, my baby. And then you have your two year old, three year old, where they're like, oh, my three year old are like, oh, my baby. And then you know they go into school and then the next big thing that you talk about is price when they become teenagers, right? So, like what happens in between?

Namhee:

I remember my middle school years being like the best years of my life, like that was a very awkward transition, just like, oh cringe. Like I would go back to those years. Yeah, like when I was started talking to people I felt like that was actually the consensus. Like I haven't heard anyone say like I would have left the middle school if I could turn back in time. Yeah, because it's this weird awkward years. And now I the kids are also growing up faster.

Namhee:

My daughter, when she was in fifth grade, just just changed one day. I was like rolled out of the bed wrong way or something, where the day before she was like this happy, go, lucky kid, and then and then she became like a teenager, but not a teenager because you're not a teenager of like self doubt, self confidence, just kind of, you know, and like this how are people thinking about me becoming more self aware, but not in a necessarily good way, but like more toxic way, where they're just like losing confidence and there's like this fake confidence that's built up around them, especially now for kids with social media. You know they see kids on tiktok and they think that's, that's life and you're like no, that's not real life but they see that and they, they're like oh, like that's so cool.

Namhee:

I'm sure they don't use the word cool. You get my point. They, they. There are a lot of outside influences. That especially for my daughter, where I felt like that came maybe earlier. Maybe that is how kids are growing up these days. There are growing up a little bit earlier of like losing that innocence about them and just kind of like that. That losing confidence part was, I think, really hard to watch as a mom, because you know what that is, because you've gone through it and you've played to it, but you can't.

Namhee:

It's not something, anything you can do. And so, even as a parent, I entered a different part of parenthood where it's not just about like parenting is in black and white, like that's wrong, that's that's good, or you know that's bad. But there are some gray areas that you're learning to navigate. You know, because you know that's doing a lot of social media is not good, obviously, but and you know that having a phone, giving them access to a phone, having them well, you know just but like, where do you put the limitations around that in a way that's healthy for your kids? But but not to a point where you know like. I remember when I was growing up, we had a friend where the mom was like you can't listen to any secular music and we were like, oh, that's so weird. You know where everyone's kind of like judging you and your mom, and so I don't want my kid to be that either right, because it's not necessarily that.

Namhee:

I think you know, phone is bad, it's it's how you use it, how you communicate with it, because they're definitely upsides to you know, having technology available to you and being connected is okay, but not all the time, right? So navigating all that parallel it just it was embarking on that different, different time and then I was like you know, there really isn't anything out there talking to this group, it's it's like you're forgotten and then suddenly you come back again as teenagers and it's a different conversation. So so that's how the brand came about between I really did want people like kids, these eight, this age and I'm not talking to the kids directly, right, like I am talking to the mom have twins right to be able to, you know, help navigate together, right like in in a vision like in a.

Namhee:

This would be more of. If I had a vision for this brand. It would be that, yes, we have products, but we also want to create a community of parents who want to be with their tweens during this time and help navigate those waters together, you know, because there's no right way to parenting, but I think everyone's in the same boat. It like experiencing some more things, but there really isn't anything to. You know, help us along, right.

Melissa:

I mean there are, there are, you know, but there should be more like more readily available well you know it's interesting, literally I just went on a trip a couple weeks ago and it was with like for with like, my sister and her family and in a couple of our cousins. And you know one of my cousins, she has two girls, ones like going to like 18 and one someone to say like 14 or 13, around that age, and you know we were all just talking about.

Melissa:

And my sister has two kids, two young girls, five and five and five and like one and a half years old and similar to what you're talking about now of, like you know, and that was the main point of discussion was social media and technology, and because we didn't grow up with that I mean, certainly we grew up with the like the age of the internet, like that was probably the big change for for our generation. But for these kids it's like, how, how do we navigate this landscape? Is exactly that tension you talked about, which is, you know, you want your kids to be, you know, to be familiar with technology, and that's not and it's not inherently bad, but also a certain exposure to it could be really dangerous and damaging. And you know they're like, oh, they said the exact thing. You think like there should be more like resources of like other people, like, how do we navigate this? How do we go through this?

Melissa:

I mean, maybe just a side note, but maybe for your brand like what if you had a podcast and like had different moms or parents who like, yeah, you know, talked about how they, how they handle the stuff because, like you said, I mean it just happened so fast and you kind of need it more like in real time. But that was just a thought, because that's what that was my thought when they were talking.

Melissa:

I was like, oh, this would be a great podcast, you know technology changes so fast that, yeah, you know, five years ago it wasn't about how do we talk, but now it's like, oh my gosh, how do we handle tick, tock? And then it's going to be the next thing like VR or, you know, ar or whatever. So, yeah, I don't know. So I know, maybe for your brand it could be a podcast for something that has conversations like that.

Namhee:

You, know there's a neat out there yeah, I mean the kids connect differently now. Right, like they could be sitting in the same room but not talking to each other, but they're playing game on roadblocks.

Melissa:

So they're in the same space, virtually.

Namhee:

Yeah, sometimes they're even like texting each other or like messaging each other on roadblocks. You're sitting right across from each other. What are you doing? So it's, it's different, it's so different. And you know, with social too, I wish there was more content out there that was more positive. Like I don't know if you've heard of like tick tock challenges, like my kids are not allowed on tick tock one, but you know, for a little bit older kids where they have like tick tock challenges and it would be doing, you know, just stupas stunts, yeah, school, you know where you you're like, okay, you there, you can use this for good, right, like a tick tock challenge can be. You know you went and bought coffee for like you know what I mean.

Namhee:

Like you pay for it or you, you know, like help the homeless, I don't know right, it's so, but it has to be so attention grabbing and so that, like bothers me to have, and when I actually started this brand a I was very hesitant to be to have social presence or to even create social channels, because I wouldn't even say have social presence for now because I just started this brand, because I was like I don't want to be on social as a marketer.

Namhee:

I'm a social because I have to be. It's work. I understand the market. I need to understand. You know what people were talking about. But yeah, like I really struggled with that and then you know where I netted out was well, like I'm still trying to reach the moms. So how do I do that?

Melissa:

and how do?

Namhee:

I, how, the when I do put content out there, how do I ensure that it's positive content and that you know that we're all playing part in raising empathetic kids, not, yeah, kids who are just like seeking attention in a negative way, right?

Melissa:

so sorry, I was just thinking with social media. It's almost like you know, like how there's age limits for drinking alcohol, or like going to certain places. It's like you almost need that for social media, because it really is something where because even as adults, we struggle with that, like looking at someone's Instagram and thinking they have the most perfect life, where it's like you have no idea what's going on someone's. I mean, we hear that time and time again, but even so, like seeing it visually is so much harder to override. That note like your intellect. So even with kids, where their brains are, like, still forming, they're still so impressionable at that age. It's like it does feel like it's necessary to degree, to have some sort of like age limit or something like that.

Melissa:

Yeah, but yeah, I don't. I agree with you. I mean, I think that's something I struggle with, even with, you know, having a podcast and having some like very I have a very small social presence, but like I, because I don't engage in that way either, it's not I don't know. That's like more of a personal preference. I guess it's hard to even like how, like, how do we put stuff out there and like, but the same time you like there's a realization that there are certain things that does catch fire and then there are things that necessarily don't. But if you're running a business, like you need the attention because that's like that's all marketing, right. Like it's like that question of if a tree falls in the forest and no one here is it like, did it fall? Like you can have a great product, but no one knows about it. Yeah, like is it a great product, you know?

Melissa:

um yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I guess I mean. I just say that just to be like I hear you. I don't know either like how to, how to necessarily, you know, go about that. But yeah, so, yeah, I mean. So, your, your brand, I mean, sounds like it's really about like, um, it's for parents caring for their kids in this tween age, but you do have products as well, so your products are it's like skincare products for for kids. Like where did that idea come from? From that initial like brand idea, I guess?

Namhee:

yeah, so going back to the kids, having masked me, I just think there's no products like what do? What do I put on you guys? I don't want it like, I don't want it to be baby stuff. I don't want it to be um you ask me stuff and you're definitely not using my eye cream. You know that's out of your price range.

Namhee:

So what, what is it right and like? The alternatives that you come up with are just, you know, boring stuff, that it's not to a specific age group, it's just for everyone, right. And so the formulation is sometimes, you know, like to greasy, or so I just I was like I don't, I'm like, okay, you guys. I was like, what do I get for you guys? That's, that's for your age group, that is age appropriate, um, and I have also told you that my background is in beauty. So, like when I started at PNG, that was in beauty specifically. Um, and I just started doing market research, I knew that I wanted the products to be made in Korea. You know, as part of my heritage and growing up in Korea, you always knew the importance of skincare, like you don't necessarily talk about it, but you just know that's important, like having clear, clean skin.

Namhee:

Clear skin is just like, it's just like almost like I don't know, like. You were born with that knowledge, like everyone gets skin, and in order to do that, you need to put something on.

Melissa:

Yes, that's a very Korean thing, for sure.

Namhee:

Yeah, like my mom, like growing up too, she would always be like put something on your face Like what you know. So you just always kind of grow up with this importance of like skincare, taking care of your skin, and then just them having my kids having like acne on their face, mask me on their face, and he's like what can I pass down to you guys? That is so that you guys can have a good skincare routine, because you know, as you get older, you realize, oh, you need to take care of it when it's drunk. Oh, yeah, you know, when you put on wrinkle cream after you get wrinkles, let me tell you it's not gonna be as effective, right? That's when you need bull talks. So you know, it's like, how do you do the prevention? And I just feel like we don't talk about prevention enough here in terms of skincare, although you know K-Beauty has made its way across to the.

Melissa:

US. In Korea do they have products for kids, for skincare too? Yeah, they do.

Namhee:

They do. So that's why it's also and it's not like it's still not everyone uses it, right. I think there is a demographic that even I'm talking to. It's not everyone right. It's not every mom with tween kick, it's not everyone's interested in skincare like that, but it is with moms who are a little bit more in tune with their skincare routine or even just a beauty routine, and understanding the importance of having that routine earlier on so that you can carry that through. You know the adulthood, adulthood, adulthood and then moving, and also, just you know, having that good habit forming at an earlier age rather than later when you're trying to, you know when you really need the skincare routine.

Namhee:

Not that kids do need it because I look at my kids' faces and I'm like, oh, you do need lotion, right? So I went to Korea and actually you know, Torn manufacturers worked with different formulation to see like what is it that I'm really looking for to give my kids, what are some important sticking points for them? And that's how I ended up with my products.

Melissa:

What did you and what were those important ingredients that you're looking for for your kids?

Namhee:

So for cleansing, you know, what was really important to me was that one that they use it right. Because I think, you know, I don't know, like some kids, like, what do kids wash their faces with? Is it just water? Is it, you know, bar soap? What are you washing your faces with, right? So I wanted the cleaning part to be fun, but have gentle ingredients, but be effective in the cleansing, because you do need to remove all the dirt and sebum from your face so that you know you're not having clogged pores, right, because clogged pores is essentially what gives you the acne.

Namhee:

And so I have this cleansing ball and I know this is a podcast so people can't see, but it is a ball where it's like a jelly ball and I'm just gonna show it to you but for listeners, they can come check it out on my site. Oh, that's cool, but it's a ball and it's like it's like a stress ball. Oh my gosh, that's so cool, yeah, and it's fun. Like I saw it and I said oh, this is so fun. Oh my God, I wanna try that. Yeah, I wanna play with it, I wanna play with it. And so that's actually handmade, because they can only do small quantities and they don't have, like, a machine that does this, so it's actually handmade. I don't say that anywhere on packaging, but it's a fact.

Melissa:

Wait, so that ball, it's a cleansing ball, and so is it kind of like a soap, where you rub it and then it gets foamed up. Yeah, it gets foamy.

Namhee:

And then there's a mesh bag that comes with it. You can choose to use it. You don't have to use it, but this will help you with the grip if you need it. So you put the ball in that bag and then you just make foam and put foam on your face and cleanse your face. You could use it as soap. I've been reading that boys don't like washing their hands and the moms are like what do I do? I need them to wash them. This could be an alternative. Like could be used as a soap, like. It is a soap, right, and so if your kids don't like it, maybe that's the thing that they can use, right. That will help them. There's fun in that right. There's a little bit more experience that I wanted to bring about for this age group, given that there isn't really anything fun about Cleaning Cleaning your face, right and then, when it comes to the moisturizer, there isn't really anything to make that fun, but this moisturizer is made with squalin and with hyaluronic acid and it's really.

Namhee:

It dries really fast, it absorbs very fast, because my kids did not like the greasy formulation yeah and that would be kind of one of the things where they would be like I don't want to use lotion because it leaves that stickiness. This absorbs right in. And this is actually something like my kids would be like where's the lotion, where'd you put it? It's like where did you put it. But they'll be like okay, I need to put on lotion and they like putting this on because of that. And I gave these out as samples to adults too, and I have a friend who's an esthetician and he's like whatever you put in, that it's amazing, like I love that lotion. So, yeah, it is good lotion, it's good formulation.

Namhee:

I made sure, like when I was touring and getting this formula is that it was really getting to the texture and the ingredients that I really wanted in there. And then my last one is a mask powder. So for the cleansing and the lotion, you do it daily, twice a day, morning and night, right. And I wanted to introduce an element of self-care.

Namhee:

These kids these days it's really interesting because they've gone through this unprecedented time of COVID Like I really do wonder what kind of impact this will have on their later years as they think back on it, like what are you gonna like we went through a pandemic. Like what does that? You know? How are you going to internalize this when you grow up? Like, what are you going to remember from this time? And this is when you know I think a lot more kids became tech dependent, which means that there was a lot more screen time, right? And part of that is like, yeah, getting on social media earlier, and you know, as a parent too, there was only so much you can do, right. So you're like now I'm like when my kids want to do screen time, I try to be like okay, like still try to limit it, but there's a part where it's like, no, I need the sanity too.

Namhee:

Like okay like you go do your screen time, I'll be on my screen time. We can do all the screen time together, right, and so you know. But that element of self-care, you know, learning to take care of yourself and kind of learning your own distress signals and recognizing whether or not you know, like understanding this idea of wellbeing, like how do I bring that to life as well? And so the mask powder is the kids really like making slime and that's kind of like. The interesting part of like kids is that sometimes they want to be grown up, but sometimes you're a kid right.

Namhee:

And like my daughter, she's still she still likes making slime. I'm like it's the weirdest thing, but okay, so this mask powder, powder with water, it mixes like slime and you put it on your face. So you mix it, you apply it and you wait and you peel it off.

Namhee:

It dries like silicone and so like it's like this rubbery feeling that feels, so, yeah, and then it takes about 20 minutes for the mask to dry, depending on you know how watery or not water you make your mask, and it also allows for a good time where you just can chat about whatever. It is right, Because how was your day? What was? Yeah.

Namhee:

And it's gotten to a point where I'd be like how's your day Good? Did something? Did anything happen? No, I don't know. But you know I write in a parenting book that if you know that there's like a end time to whatever it may be the conversation that you're having, there is a like it also signals to them oh, I only have to talk to them for this amount. So you know, like, let's make this conversation worthwhile. So, yeah, so, like you know, I've been doing masks with her and, yeah, we do talk during the time.

Melissa:

the mask is drying.

Namhee:

Like you know, it's nothing like earth shattering, but just to have that connecting time and also, you know, time for self-care, so I've included that as part of the routine that kids can do once a week, you know, by themselves, with their parents, whatever it may be. So that is the complete lineup as of today. So the cleansing wall, the moisturizer and the powder.

Melissa:

That's great. I love the thought behind that. It makes so much sense. So you just got to. You got to, you know, packaging to your demographic, which is, like you said, the slime thing with the kids and it's funny because when I saw the ball too, that's what it reminded me of was like slime and like how kids love slime.

Namhee:

I mean, I like it too honestly.

Melissa:

but yeah, just like how that's so much more like fun and engaging and not like I mean it's hard for adults to even maintain their skin guarantee and let them have your child do that. So that's really cool. I love, love that. But I mean, before we dove into our conversation, you made a comment about like you know you have your full-time job or this brand thing, and figuring out like what you're gonna do, like where's your head with all of that of you know we're gonna go full-time or I don't know.

Namhee:

Ah, I don't know. I'm kind of at this juncture of, like, what do I do? And you know I have multiple thoughts running through my head. There's a part of me that really wants to give this a fair shot of like, how do I, how do I market these products? And you know it's interesting because in establishing these products, I'm like okay, like, that's why you need a marketer, right?

Namhee:

Like that's why I have a job? Because marketing, you know people would take it for granted. But you know, just because you build it, just because you build it, they will not come Like that's not how it works. Yeah, that's not how it works and I was like, okay, well, good, like this is why I have a job. But at the same time, it is very scary, right? Because to like as to be a true entrepreneur, where you're essentially relying on your small business income, which is gonna be zero and for negative, not even zero.

Namhee:

it's gonna be negative because you're gonna be just investing into the company I don't know. I think that's like a little scary of oh, am I okay with that, like just spending and not seeing anything come back for a while. And so that's another thought going through my head.

Melissa:

Of course, I mean it's like you already made the big leap, though you created the product. I mean it's you kind of did the hard part, which is, I mean, not the only hard part, but the actual starting of it. You have this product here ready to go.

Namhee:

Yeah, I mean, this is two years in the making. So, like when I took that one year off from my other job, I started the other job the job that I'm currently at now because this was taking such a long time. Trying to find a manufacturer, trying to go back and forth, trying to work with people in Korea when you don't have foot on the ground is, like, incredibly hard. So I actually ended up getting help from my brother-in-law, who has a company in Korea, who has a team in Korea.

Namhee:

He's like oh yeah, like we can totally work with you, which helped tremendously, Like this would not have been possible without him and his team. I think the good part is I am very realistic, given that I come from the industry and.

Namhee:

I've gone into pitches for corporate brands at retailers, you know, and so it's not like I know what a pitch looks like and I also understand how much work that is and logistics and just the making of the people that are involved, and even with marketing, like you have million dollars in marketing but even that doesn't move the needle. And so I think I am way realistic in starting this business than maybe some other people who may have started this business not knowing anything other than like, oh, I, I love beauty and I think you know, honestly, people who do that, I'm like different.

Namhee:

You like like the courage to jump into the unknown, like that. That's like that. I'm like, wow, I don't know how you do that because, yeah, for me, I'm like I know and it was such a struggle, because I just know how much work it is.

Melissa:

Yeah, I feel like that's the blessing and the curse, which is like there's a real blessing and not knowing, and like maybe knowing too much, you wouldn't have even started, but like knowing also helps you know what you need to do, but then it can also hold you back. But I mean, it's serious because there seems to be an entrepreneurial thread in your story, because you took entrepreneurship in college and here you are dabbling into entrepreneurship. So maybe there is something inside of you that is like, yeah, I want to try this and like maybe I can do this. I mean, and I think what you already have today is just incredibly impressive and, you know, I think the thought behind the product is is great, as well as the brand you know. So that's a lot in itself. Yeah, Thank you.

Namhee:

No, I am so happy with the way these products turned out you know, when I first started this two years ago, I don't think I didn't like. There were times where it seemed really bleak. So to have these products in my hand, I feel like that's, that's an accomplishment. But you know, again the cheaper and me is like, okay, but what's next with that?

Namhee:

Yeah, like I actually get the sales. Yeah, we got to actually sell these right. And and that's where I think also the other part where I told you like I hate that working. So, like trying to talk to people about the products, you know, I'm a little bit more open about it because I'm not necessarily talking about me. I'm talking about the products and the story around how it came to life, which is, you know, attached it can be just attached to the products, right?

Namhee:

Like, if you look at my website, product website. You know a lot of these independent brands that with like a founder usually has like founders picture on it. Right, it's like no, I don't want my picture on this anywhere on my website. I did not want to be the front of center of this. Like this story is really about for me, one you know, I say it on my website, it's a love letter to my kids. Like this is how I'm showing you that I love you guys. Like I really truly care about you, love you guys and this is how you know this is one way of me trying to find a solve for your problems.

Namhee:

But, at the same time, the deeper meaning behind you know between like be confident, you know own these years. Like it's tough, no matter what. Like I'm sorry, middle school is going to suck, there's no other way of putting it but it won't always be that way. Yeah, but you will grow out of it. We all go through this. We all went through this. And so be confident during that time. And the same time, like how do we become a positive brand that really turn out the next generation, if kids who are a little bit more empathetic, you know, through a community of parents who can navigate these waters together.

Melissa:

Right.

Namhee:

Like, how are we guiding our kids to become this empathetic, this, you know, well adjusted, whatever that means to different people? But you know, how do we, how do we create well balanced human beings, right? How do we help balance that? How do we shepherd that Right, so that it was just a combination of all that of coming together. And so how do I now? Next becomes, next challenge becomes how do I put that messaging out there? How do I, how do I create that community? How do I get people to use these products? Because you know what hygiene is important and you know just, I guess everything that comes as next after you have the products is kind of where I'm out of figuring out. Okay, like I also need to start making some decisions. It looks like.

Melissa:

Sure Well, just to wrap things up, there are two questions I ask every guest. Which is the first question is what do you do for play or for fun?

Namhee:

Mm, hmm, so this is kind of recent, but my kids are now at an age where we can go on vacation and they can do adult things. And I realized that when I was planning a trip to Kabul last December, I was saying, oh my God, you guys are big enough. So we went zip lining, you know we went so that it was much like revolved around. Okay, like where do we park ourselves and how do we, you know, like not move around too much because it's a lot of, you know, juggling with the kids. But now it's like, okay, like we can go zip lining, we can go.

Namhee:

What else that we do kayaking, stalking you know we went like camel riding, you know it was just like packed with activities. I like, oh my gosh, you guys can do all this and you're not gonna complain that you're tired or I can't walk anymore. Carry me none of that, right. And so, and then in April we ended up going to Alaska Fairbanks to see the Northern Lights. Oh, wow, yeah, and it's cold. But they weren't like it's cold. Carry me none of that. No, everyone for themselves. We went dog mashing ice fishing.

Melissa:

Oh my gosh, I'm gonna go on these vacations sounds amazing, yeah.

Namhee:

So you know like I'm like, oh my God. And so now I'm like what's my next vacation? So we're actually going to South Africa in July and we're going to go on a safari. And now there's like I'm like, okay, what are the activities that I can do there? Because I think the time with them is limited, right, once they go to college. You know summer vacations, you know we may not always spend together as a unit anymore, and I'm cognizant of that, of we have limited time to spend together and make memories, and I want to make sure that we are making memories for them during these years and now that I realize I don't have to carry them when they're tired.

Melissa:

Wait, let's do more stuff.

Namhee:

Yeah, let's do more things. And these are actually vacations that they remember. They're like oh yeah, like I was like what's your favorite part about going to Alaska Ice fishing? Really, Really, that was your favorite. Yeah, that was my favorite. So, yeah, that's what I like to do, Cool.

Melissa:

Last question is what would you tell your younger self?

Namhee:

Have a plan there. Really, I wish I had a little bit more guidance. I just I was so naive and there are choices that I've made. I mean, there are the choices that led me to this place, I guess. But yeah, I think just little bit more thinking, little bit more understanding the different opportunities that are out there, wanting to have more broader perspective yeah, and that's what I'm trying with my kids is like they don't wanna try new things. It's not really in their DNA. Where they're like they're you're comfortable in your own space, so you don't wanna go out and learn new things. But I'm just like do what once? Like that's all I ask. Do?

Namhee:

it once and if you hate it you never have to do it again. But at least you know, and I think that's just if I could go back, if I could tell my younger self that, like, just try anything and everything once and if you don't like it, then move on, cause I think that's how you find more.

Namhee:

You find out more about yourself that way too right Of like. If you you will never know unless you've tried it and like, how do you know you don't like something Unless you've tried it? You just have certain perceptions around something and you're like no, I don't want that, but yeah, like, I think having that exploration mindset is important in discovering what your true passions are.

Melissa:

Mm love that upbeat music playing.