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Making Way
Welcome to "Making Way", a podcast about finding your own path in life.
Join us as we explore the journeys of inspiring individuals who have forged their own paths in life. We chat with entrepreneurs to artists to teachers, our guests share their stories of overcoming challenges, taking risks, and discovering their passions. Through candid conversations and practical advice, "Making Way" offers insights and inspiration for anyone looking to break free from convention and make their own mark in the world.
I want you to embrace your individuality and create a life that truly reflects who you are!
Follow our podcast and start making way!
Making Way
Insights on Genuine Connection and Hospitality
Do you ever feel the pressure to be the perfect host, or struggle with self-acceptance? Join us as we sit down with the incredible Erin McCabe, the hospitality queen, who shares her journey of learning to embrace her true self and extend that gift to others. With a fresh perspective on hospitality, she debunks common misconceptions surrounding what it means to be a perfect host and teaches us the importance of making each person feel seen and valued.
This heartwarming episode explores Erin's southern upbringing and how her deep-rooted insecurities shaped her into the person she is today. Through her fascinating journey, she's discovered the power of building meaningful relationships and the value of creating a space where people feel welcome and comfortable. From her beginnings in ministry to her new role as Director of Connections at a large church, Erin's story is an inspiring example of the beauty of human connection and the power of hospitality.
Listen in as we discuss the challenges of adjusting to new family rhythms, finding a sense of belonging in a new city, and the joy of creating spaces for others to feel known, loved, and accepted. Erin's insights on the importance of making the other person the priority in conversation and her unwavering commitment to investing in relationships will inspire you to embrace your true self and extend the gift of hospitality to those around you. Don't miss this uplifting conversation that will leave you feeling inspired and ready to connect with others on a deeper level.
Thank you for listening!
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Welcome to Making Way Podcast, a podcast about finding your own path in life. We're sharing stories to encourage you to live your life how you want to live in and not how you're supposed to. It's about being you. Why is being you so important? Good question From the time we are born, we are influenced and shaped by the people and world around us. Somewhere along the way we lose ourselves. It's okay, that's part of the adventure of life. It's about the discovery, the unlearning, the acceptance. It's that unique combination of nurture and nature that creates a unique person. That is you. I hope you can see more of yourself. All the parts of yourself, you yourself are enough and good. Period Hard stop. Today is a heartwarming episode. It's a story of self-acceptance and learning to extend that gift to others.
Speaker 1:Erin McCabe, known as a hospitality queen, unravels a true essence of hospitality, shattering misconceptions. Along the way, she enlightens us that hospitality is not about having a perfectly clean home or elaborate decorations. Instead, erin's definition of hospitality centers around a simple yet profound principle. I thought of you. It is about making each person feel truly seen and valued. I hope you enjoy this episode. Let's get started. Take us to the beginning. Where are you from?
Speaker 2:I was born in Memphis, tennessee, right in the south, and then grew up in Winston-Salem, north Carolina, southern girl through and through.
Speaker 1:How would your friends or your family members describe you as a kid? What were you like as a kid?
Speaker 2:Yeah, as a kid I was one way at home and one way at school. to be honest, at home I was outgoing talkative, very fun, opinionated, very bossy and the bossy older sister of a younger brother. But at school I was perfectly put together, very studious, behaved well, pretty shy.
Speaker 1:Do you have any insight now of why you were like that?
Speaker 2:Shy. Yes, because I was very insecure. I was so worried. I wanted to belong, i wanted to fit in. I think I did as a child, but I just always wanted to do the right thing. I was going to say the right thing. I never wanted to risk being rejected Also. oh, go ahead sorry.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, go ahead.
Speaker 2:I was going to say also I think this is maybe partly growing up in the south Be a good little girl who wears a bow in her hair and is very perfectly put together. That's kind of the other way.
Speaker 1:So I guess that's where you're carrying that into school of, like. Okay, I got to present myself really well, be just quiet and good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I thought it would be so embarrassing to get my name on the board or get in trouble. I didn't want that. It would be so shameful, and so I knew I could hold it together and not get in trouble.
Speaker 1:So describe that idea. What was the ideal you were trying to portray?
Speaker 2:I think the best way to put is perfectly put together, that I've got it all together. I don't have any weaknesses. I am smart. I can do good at everything. I can be good at everything. I can be a really good swimmer I was a swimmer growing up. I can be good at school. I can be well behaved. I can have the right friends not just have friends, but have the right friends. I wear the right clothes. I think it all went back to I wanted to be accepted and I thought I'm all those things. then no one would have a reason to not accept me.
Speaker 1:That's interesting because like what, like how. About your friends? How did you and your friends connect? What did you guys connect over?
Speaker 2:Well, I feel like a lot of this is like elementary school and middle school, middle school and high school and even college as well, that desire to have it all put together. But the older I got there were more cracks in the system. you know that I just couldn't keep it all together. as much My insecurities, i think, got stronger and stronger and bigger and bigger. I think I have friends in like middle school, high school, but I don't feel I didn't feel like really connected in very real ways with most of them. I see I was so afraid to show myself and be myself because I thought they may reject me and I was just so insecure.
Speaker 1:What about when you saw that in other people Like, did other people like? did other people reject people who were flawed in some ways or like? were you validated when you did perform like the ideal?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good question, Like, okay, i hope this answers the question, i'm not sure. Well, okay, a couple of things. One I think I was kind of friends with some mean. I saw girls be really mean to other girls And so I think that really played into things And that made me really insecure. Oh, if they're being mean to her, i bet they're being mean about me. You know, and I've always been like a more than barrier, let's accept everybody, let's bring everybody in, and not everybody else was like that.
Speaker 2:I remember in sixth grade I was in a new school, a public high school, and I was sitting at lunch with some girls. There was a girl who was older than us sitting at a table behind us. She would sit by herself every day And it made me so sad. It made me so sad. So I said, hey, i think we should invite her to come sit with us. And they were like no, erin, what is wrong with you? Why would we do that? We don't know. No, she's weird, we're not doing that. And so I think I felt like, oh my gosh, i can't be weird, i can't be myself. I have to really be so perfect or they are going to not let me sit with them.
Speaker 1:So when you're trying to fit in. Did you also then pick up on those behaviors as well, like I guess? my question is were you a mean girl?
Speaker 2:I think I was. I was not very me. I was so shy and quiet Like I don't even think I had much of the opportunity to be mean. I didn't have enough power in the group to be me. Does that make sense? Yeah, i didn't have enough power. I was too low on the totem pole Me, you know. Yeah, i had these thoughts, but they were about the girls that were my friends. Right right, no.
Speaker 1:Okay, so growing up in this southern town where this is kind of the culture, college is usually a time where I think like people kind of. I think like any new place you go to, i think it can often be an opportunity to reinvent yourself or like create a new path for yourself. Was that the case for you when you went to college?
Speaker 2:Yes, so I went to University of Tennessee and Go Falls, go Falls, that's right. I became a whole new person. I feel like I became who I really more of who I was Super talkative, outgoing, fun, friendly. I was still deeply insecure, to be honest, but my personality was much more able. I was much more able to risk it, building relationships and building friendships with, and try to connect with people as well?
Speaker 1:Do you remember that being like a conscious thing, like, oh gosh, i hate this feeling of having to be perfect, i just want to be me? Was that a conscious thought, like growing up, transitioning to college, when you're saying you became more of yourself, or was it more of like? you got to college and then you realize, oh, i can just be who I want to be because everybody else is different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i've had some experiences. I'd worked at a camp and gone to like a leadership camp in high school, and both of those times where I was out of my community, away from all the people I'm usually around, i was able to be that more outgoing self and I just felt like I was more of who I was made to be. And so when I got to college, i felt like, oh, i can be that, i was that person I was made to be. Yeah, i don't know why I couldn't. I was insecure and I couldn't do that in school, but I could do it anytime I got out of my school. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So how did you, i guess, how did you start like developing those, that aspect of yourself in college?
Speaker 2:Um well, I don't know if I developed it or I guess. Well, I guess. Okay, I guess I could say I was the fun outgoing person and I was accepted. I found a group of friends, a group of girls and guys that I was friends with, and I felt like I was really accepted by them for being the fun outgoing person, And so it felt like, oh, I can get, I can be this, this is acceptable, and people like this.
Speaker 1:So it was just getting the validation from your friends that kind of helped reinforce this part of you saying like this is good and this is accepted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, also, like summer after my senior year in high school, I got really serious about my faith. I think that that gave me a confidence that I never had before. As well Say more about that.
Speaker 2:So, and yeah, summer, after my senior in high school, i went and worked at a young life camp and I feel like my Christian faith became really real to me for the very first time And there was just a confidence that, like, this is who the Lord made me to be And my worth comes in what he thinks of me, not not so much what other people think of me, even though I really cared about what other people thought of me. There was at least some of that. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does, and I guess it's interesting because it's not that you weren't going to church before, and I'm sure you've heard that message beforehand. What was different about that particular time at young life? that made it more real?
Speaker 2:Yeah, So I went to church my whole life. I went to young life. I went to Bible study like every week. But to me it was much more about my faith, was more about like a lifestyle thing, like I don't party, i don't sleep around, i don't do drugs and smoke and stuff. So I'm like a good Christian girl and I, like you know, and I like read my Bible and journal and I love to put you know Bible verse on note cards and give them to my friends. But then I heard that summer that Jesus cares about my broken heart And I was like I've never heard it like that before And he wants to heal my broken heart. And when I was in high school my parents got divorced and that was a really big experience in my life and a sad experience and being really hard for me. And so this was like wow, like Jesus sees my broken heart and sees how it sees me, you know, and he wants to heal that And so I can follow that, i can be that. That feels real to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it was it was just like maybe part of it was the right message at the right time in your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, i think, and the thing is, i'd probably heard that other times before, but I probably I don't know, maybe I wasn't listening or I don't know. You know, i heard one time that, like, being a Christian doesn't make your life Perfect. I heard that one time in high school and I thought then what's the point in that? Like, i'm looking for perfection, i want to be perfect, you know, i want to be all put together, And so that was really discouraging, and so I didn't understand that. So, so I probably wasn't able to hear a lot of other mess messages for a while, but then, for some reason, when I heard this, like wow, i don't have to have it all together, i don't have to be perfect. Like Jesus looks at me with my imperfections and like loves and loves me, you know.
Speaker 1:I wonder also if some of that it was like the preparation for that time. you know, like you said, it's not the first time you heard the message, but maybe having heard it enough times, and then in this moment it's like kind of what they say, like you need to hear like seven different people tell you something before you like believe it you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I mean you know you are. I mean you work full time in ministry. That's where I met you. That's what you do today. I mean in college, did you? was that your intention to pursue a career in ministry?
Speaker 2:No, not at all. No, no, no, no, no, no. I didn't really know what I wanted to do in college. I changed my major like 15 times. I did my senior year in college, fifth year senior, you know. I had decided on a major by then And I was studying family studies and I thought maybe I wanted to do something with maybe like social work or something like that, Or something like a helping profession that worked with people.
Speaker 2:And then I was a volunteer leader with Young Life And one of the guys on staff came up to me one day and said, Hey, you should use students staff with Young Life. And I was like what? And he was like I see you as a leader of leaders. And no one had ever told me anything like that. And it was one of the first times in my life that someone saw something in me that I did not see in myself, And that was life changing for me. And so I was like, okay, I guess I'll try it. You know, I'll try to be a leader of leaders. Oh my goodness, Yeah. And I really took those words to heart. It was this guy named Blake who was on Young Life staff and I really trusted him and respected him in his opinion And so I really leaned into that and went through some leadership development stuff and ended up loving that year on students staff in Young Life and decided to go on Young Life staff.
Speaker 1:Wow So big change in trajectory.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Yes, Yeah. Well, I kind of okay, to be honest, growing up in the South I thought I don't really need to have a career. I'm going to like go to college, meet someone in college or maybe right after get married and have kids. I don't have a career And so in some ways I feel like I've kind of stumbled into a career in ministry, You're like I'll do this for now.
Speaker 1:Kind of mindset, yeah.
Speaker 2:I was like with Young Life you do like a two year internship and right out of college and I was like, oh, i'll do this two years. I probably won't like have got a job much more. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Fast for 20 years later, here we are. Here we are.
Speaker 2:I know, i know Sometimes it's felt like kicking and screaming, but yeah, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, so at that point, that did you have, were you with someone to kind of like fulfill that? Well, you thought, happened like we all do, like we graduate, we got a job, we get married, we have kids.
Speaker 2:Right, i mean because, honestly, i didn't really know many people. I did not know many women that did not get married and I knew women that were teachers or like real estate agents. But, like growing up I'm like thinking my friends, moms, no one worked.
Speaker 2:No, wow They were a teacher and or they were a real like I'm saying they were real. I just didn't know many career women and I can only think of one woman that I knew, and she was my swim coach and babysitter, who was like several years out of college, not married. Like I did not know adult women. And so I remember a friend when I was in college. She turned 30 and she wasn't married And I was like, oh my gosh, like that's kind of like yikes for her, because I didn't know anybody. I'd never seen anybody in that stage of life. What else did I know?
Speaker 1:So, as you're working in ministry, obviously it has become a full-time career for you, and you know why I you know, let me just kind of like maybe backtrack a little bit about this whole conversation. You know, reason why I really wanted to have you on actually about this topic is, i mean and you know me too I really deep in my core believe how important you know, community and hospitality is, and, man, i have not met someone who knows about it and executes it and like lives it the way you do, you know, and I do think like this career you do have in ministry is quite life. It's probably been life changing for so many people, you know. And so I'm and I say all of that because I'm like I'm so excited to talk to you and like get into this with you about it, which is, you know, part of I would love to hear more of your story and how you like learned about things along the way.
Speaker 1:But at the same time, like I think it's something people want to do and have in their life, but and in some ways it's a practical issue, it's like I don't really know how to do this, but like maybe getting behind the heart of things, because what's funny to me is that, like, you know how you studied, was it? was it a family studies? I'd never even heard of that major before. Now it's a big major because it's not a state, but you know family studies. And then you know, going into ministry, which is such a people's centric career, like it is, it's just like, it's just serendipitous, i think, thinking about that moment, knowing you now, like 20 years later from that moment, like oh, that's such a serendipitous moment. you know You thought you were gonna be like what two years at young life, but like, like, how did that? like, how did that all start? like snowballing, i guess, in terms of your work in ministry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I really loved being on Young Life Staff the first two years. I loved it. What I really loved was I loved seeing college students in particular become Young Life Leaders, like volunteer Young Life Leaders, and I loved seeing them grab hold of ministry and grab hold of their faith in a way that was new to them, and I loved seeing them give their life away to these high school students all over the city of Knoxville and then see them grow in their faith because of it. Like I saw college students grow in their faith as they were leaders and I saw high schoolers grow in their faith in the city, and so it was. I just loved. It's kind of like it kind of like blakes on me, like while something in me I didn't see in myself. I loved being able to see the particular beautiful ways that these college women were gifted, uniquely gifted, and then to see them grab hold of their faith, those things come together and then give their life away.
Speaker 1:When you say, give their life away, like what does that mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I think of that, i think of their time. I mean time, talent, treasure, give away their time, like spend their time. you know, most college students are like this is my time, all about me, to do whatever I want, but like these are college girls showing up at like a high school football game or getting ice cream with a high schooler, you know, and so making sacrificial decisions for themselves so that other people ultimately will see Jesus.
Speaker 1:How do you teach somebody to become that way?
Speaker 2:I think one, you model it. I think modeling it. I mean I always thought I can't ask a young life leader to do something that I'm not willing to do for them. Like, if I want them to be like taking a high school girl out to get ice cream, well, i should be taking the leader out to get ice cream. And so I think modeling it and I think it's helping them catch a vision that you doing this, you giving your life away, it's part of how you are going to grow in your faith. You're gonna grow in your faith as you make these sacrificial decisions, as you give your time away relationally, you know.
Speaker 1:So I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense. I think about someone like just yeah, the person you're coaching it might be different, because maybe it's like built into young life, because it's a whole program, you know, but like I feel like people have that desire to do that with. maybe, you know, maybe some people do wanna be a mentor, wanna pour into someone's life or be, you know, model that, but like don't really have access to do that to people. You know, like I don't know a high school kid I can like or like even have a relationship to, even like offer that you know.
Speaker 2:But you know, i don't think it's just to like a high school kid. You can do this anywhere. You can do this with your coworkers. I think it's being intentional about relationships and being like. These are the people that have been put in front of me at this moment in time, this time, you know, and so I'm going to intentionally pour into them and know them. You know, for me I feel like it's like well, god has me living, like, for instance, in this townhouse with these neighbors right now, and so I wanna intentionally know the people around me, because it's no mistake that these are my next door neighbors. You know, like it's no mistake that this is the person you may work next to in a cubicle.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I'm getting over like a upper respiratory infection. I may or I may still have it.
Speaker 2:I'll use some of your sweet to do this. Self-diagnosed Yeah, yeah, are you?
Speaker 1:taking this No, where's it not? Oh, you know what I did, though? I watched a YouTube channel. Who's like drink ginger and oranges and you'll be fine, i'm still coughing. Okay, so you're in Knoxville, you know, working as a young life leader, and I met you in LA. How the heck did you get it to LA? Why were you there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. So I worked for Young Life and then I was like I'm done with ministry, i wanna do something totally different. Okay, wait, why? Where are you over it? Fundraising I was tired of raising money, really tired of raising money. I felt like Young Life was all I'd done, like I'd been here five years in college and then on staff for seven years And I just felt like how much of my identity and who I am is in Young Life And I wanted to see who I was outside of that. How old are you at this point? That's a great question 31, maybe 31. And I was like I am young and single And hmm, Great a party Ready, Live in life.
Speaker 2:So I decided I should be a set decorator or an interior designer And so I took some classes. I was living in Dallas, Texas, at the time. I took some classes in Dallas and got involved with the Set Decorator Society of America And they were like you gotta live in LA, Got to live in LA. So I was like, okay, I can come do school in LA And then I'll just be a set decorator. It's gonna be great, It's gonna be awesome. Somewhat. A woman who worked on a TV show had offered me an internship that I met through the SDSA And yeah, and it was like a CBS television show. So I thought this is just like perfect, My life is great. So I was like I'll move to LA And I also loved the idea of living outside the Bible Belt. I'd always lived in the Southeast Texas And I was like I want an adventure and I want to live in a place very different than the South. So LA it was.
Speaker 1:Okay, and how did things go in? LA Cause you.
Speaker 2:You know, i did school and I was like this is not the life for me. I really missed investing in people And not that you don't invest in people in any job and just life in general. But I started working part-time for our church when I was out there And I really grabbed hold of what the church was doing in the city and the influence of the church had and the way and just investing in people in our city. In a way I got to bring that hospitality to like the role Sorry, this is not making much sense, but like the roles that I was able to play at the church. I was working part-time.
Speaker 2:Anytime a new woman would visit one of our church services, i would meet with her for coffee And I was like I was made to do this. This is like what I was made to do And I didn't know roles like this existed in ministry with adults. So I really loved what I was getting to do in the church And I really didn't like sitting in front of a computer all day doing auto-cap, yeah, so you became more captivated by the vision of the church and then like experiencing it firsthand, like it being such a good fit for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. So, mm-hmm, I was just gonna say I felt like that role, that like guests I don't even remember what the Guests outreach, Guests outreach coordinator. Yeah, That's the role I forgot By getting to do that. I just felt this like this is who God made me to be And I'm getting to all my giftings, All my giftings.
Speaker 1:Right, You know, I bet a lot of people who are listening are like I don't work in ministry and I'm not a Christian, Like this is not relevant to me, Right, But I, you know, I'm having this episode because I actually think the contrary, which is it's like it's so relevant to all of us. You know, like how do you even have a? like you know that idea of like meeting with a complete stranger, having to have a coffee with them in time and time again, like that takes a certain skill set and that's a skill set a lot of us need, you know, to like learn to meet new people, talk to new people, connect with them. Like when you're having, when you're doing these guest outreach coffee dates with these people, like, kind of how, what's your method? Like, what's your method in terms of like connecting with them and like what's the purpose of of that time?
Speaker 2:You know, i think I am a naturally curious person. I want to deep dive everything in life That's TV shows, try like true crime and people. I'm like deep dive. I want to know everything about your life and I want to know you and not like not just the surface, but the real stuff You know, and I think, thinking about LA in particular. So many people move to Los Angeles, move to Los Angeles. I moved to Los Angeles, so many people move there did not know anyone, did not have family, and I was like we got to help each other create a home here in this gigantic, massive city, and so so I had the heart for it and then, like I just deep dive, i just didn't like ask a million questions, tell me about this, tell me about that. You know, i think I'm just genuinely interested in wanting to know people and wanting to help them find a place to belong in a city of LA.
Speaker 1:You know what's so interesting to me. You know to kind of like you know what's great about these podcasts. It's like because, like something, you'll talk to people. I talk to people sometimes I don't know I mean majority of the people I do know, and more and more it's becoming people. I don't know, but I know you and you know it's so funny to you, like it. Things connect differently when you hear a story in one sitting, because I've heard all these parts of your story and know, know these things about you. But you know, even hearing about the guest outreach thing, like so much of like, even what you're saying right now, the reason why you're able to connect with people is because you're making it. You're making the other person the priority. You know where I think a lot of people get really nervous about connecting or meeting new people or, you know, networking. It's because you're constantly self conscious of like, what do they think about me? What am I going to say?
Speaker 1:Am I, you know it's very self centered in that way, but like even to hear you say like it's all about them. you know, let me ask some questions about them. But then you know how your story started off, with you saying how you were so self conscious and you know insecure, and you know it's just kind of I'm just having a moment of like it's how it's come full circle in that way.
Speaker 2:I think I have experienced what it's felt like to feel like an outsider, even if not. Sometimes we can feel like an outsider even if we aren't one. I think because I know what it feels like to be an outsider. It feels like it's what it's like to be new in a city or a situation. I think that gives empathy, has given me an empathy to like wow, you're new. Let's, how can I bring you in? Does that make.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, this thing is. You are a pro at this as well. I hope you know. Thank you, so good at this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you recruited me for the guest outreach program.
Speaker 2:You're so good at this, but yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:So then you know that role grew, you know it became full time in. You became what was your role? connections director. Director of connections. Yeah, okay, so give us a lowdown on, like on, um, okay, let's backtrack a little bit, can I?
Speaker 2:say one more thing about strangers. meaning with a stranger, is that okay? Yeah, just one more thing I wanted to say.
Speaker 1:Tell me more.
Speaker 2:Sorry to derail us for a second. I think I love strangers to this day. I love talking to strangers. The stakes feel really low, like um, like talking to a stranger. most of the time it's like I may never see you again, so like who cares if you like me or not or what you think of me? you know the stakes feel really low And I feel like when I talk to a stranger I feel I feel very free to like be me and just like be who for me, like God created me to be. I get to be that And I get to like maybe make someone else feel known and seen in the moment, which is saying that I really care about.
Speaker 1:So going from a guest outreach coordinator and then evolving into a full time director of connections like how did that come about?
Speaker 2:Well, the job came available and they asked me to apply for it. Oh yeah, scott Cogel, scott Cogel, okay Yeah. He was like Hey, erin, um, i was wondering why you haven't applied for this job yet. And I was like, well, i said, because y'all the asked me to do like the other jobs, you've asked me to do. So, like I thought maybe you didn't want me to do that. And he was like we would love for you to apply. And I was like okay, give me the job you know, and so Way to play hard to get.
Speaker 1:What's that Way to play hard to get? That's right Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's kind of how that evolved And I ended up getting the job.
Speaker 1:So what was your job as director of connections? Because what an interesting title.
Speaker 2:It sounds like it's like a dating service or something. Um so, director of connection, I helped people from the first time they came to visit our church, or even if they reached out with questions before they visited our church. All the way until they became a member of the church I went through a class and right the whole thing. So that whole process. I oversaw all the systems and processes as well as really relationally important.
Speaker 1:You're kind of like part of like a little bit like customer acquisition in like a private company or something It's like is. your job is to get them to like become a certified member of the church.
Speaker 2:Exactly, get them to stay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i mean. Also, i think it should be noted that you know this church was massive. This is not some like 30 person church where it's like why do you need a director of connections? It's like what was it at the peak? like 5,000 members or not members.
Speaker 2:But probably I mean it was huge There would be like on Easter service there would be like 2,500 people at service. It was huge. Yeah, it was a massive church and it would be easy. It was big enough to be. It was easy to be lost in the shuffle, lost and proud.
Speaker 1:Honestly, you had the best job at the church because, like you literally got paid to. You know, meet with people, host parties and gatherings. I mean, granted, you know, maybe some of the hours weren't always compensated, but it is. It is the best you know, the best job.
Speaker 2:It was the very best job. I loved it.
Speaker 1:How do you like create that setting for yourself? Cause I do feel like people crave that. I feel like that is what we're missing, which is just like people getting together and, like you know, hanging out and spending time to go. Like, how do you, how do you even like think to create a space for that?
Speaker 2:Create a space for that? That's a good question, i mean, i think one. you've got to be building relationships with people, you know. you've got to at least know some people to ask, you know. and then I think sometimes it's risking it, you know, like risking it and inviting people over because, let's be honest, like hosting and gathering, it takes up time, it takes up money, It takes those are the two main things. It takes time and money. but it also takes your risking, like people saying no, you're risking rejection. You're risking people being like why would I come in? you know? no, you know. so you're risking all those things and but it's worth it, you know it's deciding to take that risk.
Speaker 2:When I moved to Nashville, i was, i worked, i moved here to work for the church And so I got to know. I met a lot of people, you know, and one day I was feeling very lonely, very lonely. I probably lived here two weeks and I was really lonely and I was like, okay, bachelor in paradise, comes on tonight. I know women like bachelor in paradise. So every single woman who I met so far like enough to have a conversation. I found their phone numbers and texted them and said I know this is very last minute, but would any of you want to come over and watch bachelor in paradise tonight? And so I was like I'll have some snacks and drinks.
Speaker 2:And so women came probably like eight or 10 women came, wow, that night. And it was scary, and I was so nervous to send that text because I thought, am I going to be too tired the next day? Are they going to be like? I don't even know you, why would I come over to your house, you know? And so I think sometimes it's just like doing it. you know, my desire to build relationships was more like. that desire was bigger than the fear I had that no one would come or that I'd be too tired or anything like that.
Speaker 1:Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, you know it's very valedict to hear you say that you're afraid because, like you, are the director of connections or, like you know, the hospitality queen, and like even someone like you who does this literally for a living and is like so much part of your nature, like even that that's intimidating for you too.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, it's very. I mean, there have been times here in Nashville where I've been like I wanna text a group of people and ask them to do something, but I'm like I can't take a bunch of rejection right now, like I don't have it in me to have everyone say no, so I'm just not gonna do it, you know, because there is you're risking something when you are hospitable you know Right, what is it that you're risking?
Speaker 2:I mean, i think I'm risking for me. It's, the rejection piece is really hard for me, really hard. I feel like that can feel risky to me. I am putting myself out there and saying come, i want you to be a part of my life and there may be people that are like, no, i don't wanna be a part of your life. Now, that's not what they're saying.
Speaker 1:Sure, that's what it feels like, yeah, they may.
Speaker 2:they probably just have other plans, or they're tired, or, who knows, never know what's going on with someone else in their life. But that's how I take it, cause don't we wanna make everything about ourselves.
Speaker 1:Yes, cause it is, We're not sure of our own universe. So when you host something like that like, how do you now then go about creating that space? Like okay, i have 10 women coming over, what are you doing?
Speaker 2:Like, how do you setting the scene? Yeah, that's a good question. So I'll say one thing growing up in the South, i thought hospitality was having the perfect tone, that always looked perfect and was very clean, and I think that was one of the most outrageous beautiful decorations and, like you know, woo, woo things to make it beautiful. That was hospitality, and so I do not agree with that. I think now to create a space, it's how about I think hospitality and creating a hospital environment is.
Speaker 2:I've thought of you, like I'll have snacks, but like if someone's gluten free something you know like I see you and I know you're coming over. So I think there is like I've thought of you. I have enough of everything, i have enough places for people to sit, i have the temperature right so that people are gonna be comfortable when they come over. I have enough food and snacks for and drinks for everyone, and I have a variety for what people may like you know. And then I think it's making each person individually feel seen by me.
Speaker 2:That is really important to me. Like when someone gets there, i'm like hi, i'm so glad you're here, you know. And then it's also introducing them, making sure they know they've met every person in the room And so I notice if someone's quiet, like, oh, have you met so-and-so, or let's thinking of something that we've talked about before that I can talk about with them, does that make sense? Yeah, i think trying to create a space where people feel like you belong here. I've thought of you beforehand. You have a place to belong here in this home in this moment, in this group setting That's so good No.
Speaker 2:What's it You do?
Speaker 1:it was better than any place, No no, no, you are the queen of hospitality Because I mean it's, it's, it's. I mean because I think you add a whole other flair of, like you know, your background and interior design, like you also like, just like visually I know you say that's not part of it, but that's like that's like your, your charm in building that space is like I can also create, like a cute space you know.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Most of the people here in the South. I am like I can't hold a candle to them. Okay, I mean, people are so extreme here.
Speaker 1:It's beautiful, but I Really Yes, oh geez, you know what. There's a level of that. Sometimes it's like too much, you know, it's like too suffocating because it's like too perfect And you're like I don't want to like Mess it up up yeah, yeah, i mean like for me it's not worth it to lose sight of the more important thing that people feel welcomed.
Speaker 2:Because I'll spend so much time getting things ready, like my house and decorations and all the stuff that I've stressed myself out to the point that when people get there I'm like ooh, i'm like annoyed. You know, that's terrible, that is awful, but I'm just like I've been so stressed I can't even enjoy when everyone gets there because I'm so spent. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Totally yeah, I guess it's like worth, like that's worth noting because it's like you kind of want to manage your own energy before people get there too.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, i read this book by Shauna Nequist. It's called Bread and Wine and is one of my I can't read that. Oh, it's so good. It has great recipes in it too.
Speaker 2:She has this quote in there where she says something like the heart of hospitality is that when someone leaves their home, they feel better about themselves, not better about you. Ooh, it's not like, blew my mind. Yeah, it's not about How do you do that? It's such a tall order. It is, it is, i think it's and that's where I really was like wow, it's making people feel seen and know, like you have a place to belong here and I see you and I want to know you. And so if the decorations have to be less than so that I have the emotional, mental space to see people and know people, then I will let it sacrifice. We just said so.
Speaker 2:I work for a church, like you said. I'm over, like our whole Easter service and it's just as we've talked about. It's been really hard. A few weeks in Nashville with the coming of school shooting and Easter came And I was like beating myself up because I didn't do fresh flowers. We met outside and I did these cute balloon things but like I didn't do fresh flowers And I was like beating myself up over it. But I was like if I had done the fresh flowers at the same time, it would have stressed me out to the point that on Easter I wouldn't have been able to look a newcomer in the eye and like embrace them the way I was.
Speaker 1:You know it's so much of hospitality and building community is about the other person, you know.
Speaker 1:now I say that because it can just feel like oh it's like I don't, i don't, i don't know, I don't have the energy, or like I'm not that self-sacrificing and good in that way, but like what is it that, as you who because that's a lot of energy you're expending in time and you know, focusing on other people, do you? I don't know? like I guess, like do you get anything in return? or like what's the feeling or what's like your experience being on that side of the fence?
Speaker 2:That's a great question, I think, Like I said, I'm very curious and love knowing people. So there is a side of it where I get to know people and that is very that fills my cup in some ways, And I love seeing people connect with one another. That's beautiful to me, You know, and that I get so excited when I hear about two women that came over to my house, you know, for like a soup night and then they're like hanging out together outside of that, You know that's like yeah, that's like the biggest win, You know. That's beautiful. It feels being hospitable, having people in my home, creating a space for people to belong, To be honest, just feels. It feels so natural.
Speaker 1:It feels like when I'm able to be the best version of who God made me to be, I guess like you know, for people who may feel, like you know, i don't, i'm so busy I don't have the time to do this. I'm already busy with my own family and trying to like take care of them and let alone have now host a party and take care of all these other people. I guess, like, what's your initial kind of like? respond to that? or like, what are they like? how can we like maybe shift that way of thinking, cause like yeah, i mean yeah, what do you think?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, i think there are seasons where it just doesn't work.
Speaker 2:You know, there are seasons in your life where, like, you're actually not gonna be able to love people fully if they come into your home, because you've got babies at home and your work is stressful and you just need, like, some breathing room. I think it's important to take care of ourselves and know that different seasons in our life are gonna call for different things. So, but sometimes I just am a believer that when we make sacrificial choices, that we just find that more I hate to use such a Christian-ese term, but like life to the full, like I think, when we are living out like who we were made to be, that that's going to, we're gonna we're not gonna be tired or we're gonna be the good kind of tired. You know, like you have a really good workout and at the end you're like gosh, i'm tired, but I also feel like energized.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm talking about. Like, sometimes it's like that. Like sometimes it's like, wow, this isn't about me, this is about the other person and I'm yes, i'm busy and I'm spitting, you know, but they spend that time with that person. You're like I'm so glad I had those people over, you know.
Speaker 1:I feel like with energy-wise, when you're tired, there's like two ways to recuperate. Sometimes you've overused your energy and maybe you need to rest. Right, there's that version, and then there's just there's another version, and sometimes it is hard to distinguish the two. But the other version is like you haven't been, you've only been doing energy draining activities, so you need something that's gonna increase your energy. Yes, totally Yeah. So, even if you feel tired, it's not so much like I need a rest, it's like you just need an activity. It's like Yes, it gives you your second win, so to speak. You know.
Speaker 2:Yes, i mean yes, 110%. you know what, when I'm, if I'm like so tired, sometimes the best thing for me to do is like to go for a swim or go for a walk, or like I like to do, like art, journaling, and so doing something like that is so much better for me than taking a nap Right, or like getting a massage, or like walk around Target. you know, sometimes you need something different other than just sleep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what they're saying, like I hear them, or what article this was. But, like you know, resting isn't like just sitting on your couch watching Netflix. It's like doing the things that you enjoy and to like reenergize yourself.
Speaker 2:I read something once that said rest is like resting of all your faculties. It's like resting your like your brain, like sometimes you need to rest your brain, sometimes you need to rest your like emotions, sometimes your body, you know.
Speaker 1:You know, after you know hearing someone who's like listening to you, know this conversation and maybe they're still feeling a bit intimidated about engaging with people in this way. What's kind of like your word of advice to them. Like I want to, but I'm scared.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i think start small and start safe, like maybe it's inviting one person who's like your best friend, you know. And I don't think hospitality is just inviting people to your home, you know. Let me say that first, i think being hospitable is saying you have a place to belong, like in my life, you know. You have a place to belong in my sphere of life, you know. And so it can start like, if you're intimidated and you don't feel comfortable having people in your home, just invite someone who you know needs to be taken in and invite them to coffee. That is hospitality as well.
Speaker 2:To me at least, it's seeing the outsider and saying you have a seat at the table, you know. And so start small with something like that Invite one friend, or invite. Maybe you get your best friend and you say, hey, there's this girl at my work and I want to have her for dinner, but I feel like just the two of us is going to be kind of weird. Would you want to come over? I think you would enjoy meeting each other as well, you know.
Speaker 1:And so do those things that make it feel like, okay, there's something comforting, something that like a security blanket for you you know, you know our conversation is really making me reminisce about our time in LA and I'm just like man, i miss it. I haven't thought about it, like I guess, like sitting here with you talking about because we've had so many times, even just what you were saying, like you know, asking a best friend to come along me. so many times, you know, i think you've asked me to like hey, there's this new person, or like I want to do this thing and like ask me to come with you. and you know, reminiscing on like the countless parties and dinners and coffees that like we've done together And I, man, i miss that so much.
Speaker 2:Well, you helped to. You are, i mean, like I said, you're the queen of creative space for people to feel you are known and loved and belong.
Speaker 1:Thanks.
Speaker 2:Isn't that really what?
Speaker 1:hospitality is Yeah, i agree, i definitely think so And I think so much of it. I think I learned that from you. It's kind of like what you were saying earlier. It's like you can't really like the best way to teach someone is just like to model it to them. And I think, like you know again, this is where it's like unique, maybe in church or like the church we used to work at, which was like you know, these kinds of jobs didn't exist or the way to like engage with people didn't exist.
Speaker 1:Because, you know, when you're in a corporate environment it's so much more task oriented. you know This is the, this is the input, this is the output. That's really all that matters. And then, like you know, there, like company culture and like connection is sort of a byproduct. You know it's not really the focus Right exactly, but in a church environment, or at least at the role that you were in in particular I mean really it was every role it is so people-centric and it's so much the product is. I guess you can say the product is used, but the product really is about the human connection, because you want people at the church to feel connected and like feel like they're part of a community And, you know, i think, as large as a church as it was.
Speaker 1:I think that's what we had going for us, you know, and that's what's wild. It's like you know, i think, people who don't know you it's like I have to say this just because the power and like your influence and impact, that that was the lifeblood of the church And I think you had such a big part of that like teaching others how to do that and just like modeling that like I only would have known to do that or like even feel like I don't know, like oh, i guess you can't ask someone to hang out, you don't know, you know and invite them over, like because no one's really like thinking like that per se. You know, and I really feel like you know. You know one of the biggest reasons that that church thrived was the community and the connections. And I think, like you know, with the guest outreach program where you started, like I mean that became one of your biggest programs under your department And you had I mean you had a little army of people everywhere doing that. You know.
Speaker 2:Y'all were amazing and y'all, you know y'all were amazing. It was because there were 20 of y'all all around the city that they had eyes for the outsider. you know, and you were all doing it I can't do it by myself, but all of you were out there doing it and it was beautiful to see.
Speaker 1:I mean, the reality is like all of us, you know, for people, i think, where maybe it can feel exhausting if you're not that type of person, if you're like, well, i'm introverted, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I really think at the end of the day, we really are social beat, like social creatures And, like what you said before, like it is so fulfilling where and I think people recognize that Like I don't know if people know how to make space in that, but I find that, like, as we're getting older, like people are finding success in other ways, like you know, that's just what comes with time and age. But you kind of realize like, oh, where I really do feel the most fulfilled in my life is when I'm connecting with other people. You know whether it's my family or my friends and you kind of maybe is trying to start shifting gears a little bit for that. And, man, it was just so fun to do that. You know all those parties.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, all the parties. It was much fun.
Speaker 1:I wish we could turn back time just for that time where it was, like you know it was really good That was lightning in a bottle that time. It was lightning in a bottle.
Speaker 2:It was lightning in a bottle. It does not happen all the time and it's not the same anymore. And it was beautiful. I don't think I'll ever experience anything like that again.
Speaker 1:Does that make you sad? Because, like I don't know about you, this is kind of a little like a tangent. But, like you know, i think like living my life now the way it is, where it is just so different from my life in LA, and I've realized I'm like man, i haven't been able to let it go, like I still pine for that life I had, and the hard thing is is that I've experienced what life could be. So it's hard to it's hard not to compare and like wish you know and like create that, create that experience again.
Speaker 2:I don't know, do you ever feel that way? Yeah, i mean, i feel like, yes, i mean, but I also am like Godly, that was 10 years ago. I was much fired then And yeah, i mean, i try to create some of those same things in Nashville and they don't work the same. You know, there also was this time where, like, everyone seemed to be in the same phase of life for the most part, like, or a lot of people were a lot of single people who paid enough money to do some things, you know Like. You know, like we weren't so poor that we couldn't go out and do anything And everyone just had a lot of time. We all had some time. Everyone was looking to get married, looking to meet somebody. So I think there's like a lot of motivation as well And just a lot of like time.
Speaker 1:I mean you say that, but what's interesting is it's like, yeah, but it was also a spectrum of people from their 20s to their 50s. It's not like yeah.
Speaker 2:But even the people in their 50s felt like people in their 20s. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone just seemed. You know it also seemed LA is such a unique city in that so many people move there and they don't have family, they don't come with their college friends. I think in a city like LA, everyone is looking to have a family in the city, like outside of a traditional family Outside of a traditional family Yeah.
Speaker 2:Looking for family Like Nashville. It's been so jarring for me in so many ways. But one of the ways is like most people live within like a couple hours of their family or they have like half their college friends moved to Nashville or they grew up here And so I found that so many people they already have like a built-in crew, you know, and there are less people that are looking for that same kind of family, not saying it doesn't exist, it does, it does, sure, i know it does, but it's just different, you know.
Speaker 1:How do you adjust to that?
Speaker 2:It's been hard, it's been very hard. I mean It's been hard and it's just gonna look different. You know, people in Nashville travel a lot more like on the weekends. People are gone like to half the weekends a month, not everybody, but a lot of people. And Just knowing that, like on the weekends, a lot of people are gonna be gone out of town Because they can drive to every baby shower, every wedding shower, every wedding, every birth, family birthday party. You know they go to their niece and nephews like soccer games, you know, and so it's been hard and so honestly, i look who are some people that are looking to find a family here and How can I like lean into those people?
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Is it's different? because in LA I always tell people here I'm like people in LA did not travel like people in Nashville.
Speaker 1:No, well, people weren't Right. Well, also, people weren't like didn't have any family to like, family obligations, everyone was away from their families. Or like what are we doing on Saturday?
Speaker 2:Everyone was looking for Passing in LA. I feel like everyone was always looking for something to do, to do mm-hmm always, and maybe I'm just like not in with the right crew. I Have not found a crew that's always like, ooh, what's going on? What can we do? You know, what can I do?
Speaker 1:What's going on, the same way, you know it's. So we were kind of having a parallel experience Like that. I feel the same way. I'm just like I mean, where are the people who are like, let's hang out, let's do something? I just always like the you know, the weirdo who's like let's like, are you guys busy? What are you doing? You know, but you know it's kind of similar to you every. Most people have family obligations, you know, and That does become That does become tough.
Speaker 2:So and I think for me, like be quite honest, being in my 40s and single, i Just I Feel like I don't necessarily fit in with the single 25 year olds Because I'm like 15 years older than them, more than 15 years older, and then most of people my age are married with children, and I would love to be a part of their families, but just our rhythms of life are very different, you know. And of course I have some friends. I've some wonderful friends. Don't get around if they listen to this. I want them to know I have wonderful, i love my and they are wonderful. Um, but it has been harder to find people That are kind of on the same Yeah, wavelength with Waifling, and live the same rhythms as me.
Speaker 1:How are you processing through that, this adjustment of, like You know, just yeah, like you said, you're in a dirt, not a be not able to find the same flow. Hmm, are you managing?
Speaker 2:Some days are really good and some days are really hard. To be honest, you know, i'm just like From for me. I'm like this is where God has me and it's not a mistake and I'm gonna lean into where I am. I'm gonna lean into the people around me. You know People I'm like in a small group with through church. I swim on a swim team, those people I volunteer With a local non, like with young life, like as on their committee and so like leaning into the staff people there and getting to know them and So being like this is where I am and I'm just gonna, cheesy as it may sound, i'm gonna lean in to the people around me And it may not look like what I want it to, but that doesn't mean it's bad, you know.
Speaker 1:Well, just to wrap things up, i asked two questions, okay, mm-hmm. one is what do you do for fun or play?
Speaker 2:Oh, i love that question. I love fun and I love to play. I Swim on a swim team, like I said, and I love it. It is so fun, is like my favorite thing to do And I like going to happy hour. Next question is what would you tell your younger self.
Speaker 1:I would tell my younger self.
Speaker 2:There's nothing wrong with you. Hmm, there's nothing wrong with you. I think that's a narrative. I told myself a lot and I can still tell myself sometimes when, when things aren't perfect or I'm not perfect, when things aren't perfect or I'm not perfect, there's nothing wrong with you. You don't know what's going on With everybody else, you just never know and don't compare. There's nothing you and don't compare yourself so much.
Speaker 1:Looks good. Okay, that's. That's the end of the episode. Did you enjoy today's episode? if so, please leave us a review and let us know what you enjoyed. I say us, but it's really me. Who would you like to hear from next, or what topic you like to discuss? Regardless, I would love to hear from you until next time. Bye You.