Immerse yourself as Maiata unveils her journey through the competitive landscape of interior design. From overcoming burnout to learning invaluable lessons about communications and work ethics, she shares the struggles and triumphs of her journey. She confides about the pressures of striking a balance between her ambition and personal life, including considerations about starting a family, and the importance of self-care amidst a demanding profession.
But what keeps Maiata pushing forward when the going gets tough? Tune in to learn about her inspiring mantra: the need to do better and give her best, influenced by her belief of owing it to her clients. You will gain insights into her inner workings, including her constant battle with feelings of inadequacy and the stress that comes with her pursuit of excellence. Maiata's story is a testament to the power of resilience and personal growth. Don't miss this enriching conversation with a woman who is not just shaping spaces, but also paving a unique path in the world of interior design.
👉 All things Maiata Carlton:
Thank you for listening!
Do you know someone or have a topic you would like featured on the podcast? Leave a review and let me know! I'd love to hear from you!
Immerse yourself as Maiata unveils her journey through the competitive landscape of interior design. From overcoming burnout to learning invaluable lessons about communications and work ethics, she shares the struggles and triumphs of her journey. She confides about the pressures of striking a balance between her ambition and personal life, including considerations about starting a family, and the importance of self-care amidst a demanding profession.
But what keeps Maiata pushing forward when the going gets tough? Tune in to learn about her inspiring mantra: the need to do better and give her best, influenced by her belief of owing it to her clients. You will gain insights into her inner workings, including her constant battle with feelings of inadequacy and the stress that comes with her pursuit of excellence. Maiata's story is a testament to the power of resilience and personal growth. Don't miss this enriching conversation with a woman who is not just shaping spaces, but also paving a unique path in the world of interior design.
👉 All things Maiata Carlton:
Thank you for listening!
Do you know someone or have a topic you would like featured on the podcast? Leave a review and let me know! I'd love to hear from you!
Have you ever asked yourself why do I do what I do Now? That question can be interpreted in many different ways, but today we're going to explore that question as it relates to our jobs. Today's guest is Mayetta Carlton, an experienced interior designer thriving in the fiercely competitive landscape of New York City. She is forging her path in the field of design with her company Marlowe Croft. We'll learn the origins of her drive to succeed and her everyday mantra do better. This is Making Way.
Speaker 2:I know I'm excited to share my story. It's not like super interesting, but you know that's what everyone said. And then we died.
Speaker 1:That's literally what everyone says, like, oh, I'm nothing to say, and then, sure enough, we're talking for like two hours and out, blood gates open. Everyone's crying. There'll be no tears here. Hopefully not, okay so why don't we just dive right in and we'll start off real easy start right from the beginning. But yeah, why don't we just start with? Where are you from? Are you originally from Pennsylvania or are you from New?
Speaker 2:York. Where are you from? I'm originally from. The town is called Littlestown, pennsylvania, and as it sounds it is quite little. I think growing up we had one stoplight, you know it was. I could walk to school so like, so, so close. It was Farmtown-esque. A lot of farmers around here Pennsylvania obviously has a ton of farmland, so it was just a small, quaint little town that my parents I don't know how they happened upon it. It's close to where my grandparents kind of were, so I guess that's that's why we ended up here. But yeah, it's a very small town right outside of Gettysburg, pennsylvania's, where people typically know the area from the Civil War.
Speaker 1:Yeah, If you don't mind me asking what's your ethnicity.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, so my dad is half Filipino, half Hawaiian, my mom is all the white stuff, you know. So that's it. And it's really funny you asked that because I was asked that constantly growing up. I remember time periods of like kids being like. Why are you brown and I would always. Why are you white? I?
Speaker 1:don't know. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Right and we always had like this makes me laugh now like cultural days, like under school, and I appreciate that, like I'm so happy that they tried to like explore cultures. But they used to ask my dad to come in and talk about like, like Japanese culture, and he's like I'm Filipino bro so different, so so different, so, um, yeah, so we were. You know, I was like color, I'm half, you know, but but we're different.
Speaker 1:Definitely yeah. Okay, let me guess celebrity lookalike that you get all the time Vanessa Hudgens.
Speaker 2:Got it. That's it Exactly, yeah, okay. So yeah, how does I?
Speaker 1:guess your parents end up in Pennsylvania, being like half Filipino and half white, I guess.
Speaker 2:I think it was they just wanted to move back, be closer to my mom's parents. My dad moved from the Philippines, I think when he was in his 20s, so he was there for a good amount of time. His family who was still out there were there in San Jose, california area.
Speaker 2:So, they're still kind of out there. So my mom and dad met when my mom was at Stanford and both physical therapists and I think they're working in the same hospital. So I'm like how guys like Palo Alto yeah, what happened? Like why, why are we here? Why are we in little little town?
Speaker 2:Pennsylvania Um but I think my dad wanted to change a scenery you know, and my mom wanted to be close to her parents, which is, which was really nice because we spent a lot of time at their house growing up and stuff. So, and you know, these courses great too. I always I would ask my cousins like they're like what's? This is the best kiss. I'm like sure, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess your parents are okay. Like Stanford is an amazing university Growing up did they? Did they like prioritize education or were they super strict about that kind of stuff? They weren't super strict.
Speaker 2:My mom, my mom has a lot of high expectations for us as my dad, but my dad was, my dad was like Island. He's like kind of chill, you know.
Speaker 1:Unless we're like acting up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that came out and all that stuff. But my mom, yeah, she definitely had high expectations, but nothing of like. We never felt like we had to like produce an A. Well, I think we put a lot of pressure on ourselves as kids, so but yeah, no, obviously academics are important, but they also wanted us to like live normal lives and we did. Well, I said we did a ton of sports. We literally only did gymnastics, like we a gymnastics family, that's like nobody did anything else because it was so time consuming. So we split time with that and academics and yeah normal kind of like childhood.
Speaker 1:So how did you then? I guess, like you went to I saw that you went to Penn State like I guess, like, how did you decide to go to Penn State and, like you know, study your? What was it? What did that? What did it? What is our history?
Speaker 2:I was like, okay, yeah this is funny, so my mom works for. Penn State and it was like you can go to Penn State and get a remb, like I think we got like 70% off or something like a really good position right. It was like you can either go to Penn State or you can go to full ride somewhere else, or you can pay for it. So we were all like Penn State it is then.
Speaker 1:Well, it's a great tool, so it's not a bad choice. Yeah, I know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think we all went through this, like I don't want to say rebellious. We were like I don't want to be in Pennsylvania anymore, I'm going to go look somewhere else. But then you start like looking at, like how much it costs me, like where were you looking?
Speaker 1:What were the other schools you're looking at? I was looking all over, I mean.
Speaker 2:I honestly I had looked at the West Coast.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I just was kind of like anywhere I'll go anywhere else. But then, you know, it just kind of it worked out to be Penn State and I it's funny, I knew, I don't know. I would say maybe I was a junior or maybe as a senior, I think I had like a senior project or something and I knew at the time I want, I was going to go for architecture. I was like, yes, I'm going to be an architect because I love houses, right? I?
Speaker 2:love the way houses look and how they're built, and my aunt actually is a. She's the civil engineer for Annapolis, maryland, so she had some friends in architecture and she was like, hey, you want to meet some of my friends, you can see, like, what they do. And like, since you're wanting to go for this, I was like, okay, great. So I went and shadowed, like this architect, who was great he was a really really great guy, did really good work but I'm like I don't like this. This is boring.
Speaker 2:It was not what I expected, right, like I'm expecting you're doing, like the interior finishes, I'm like the interior work, and you know it's all about like, oh, this, this is the waterproofing detail. And I'm like, oh, like I don't know about that. So, when I was in his office, though, I had met his interior, one of his interior designers and I talked to her for a while and she was showing me everything that she did and, like you know, she had all these samples out and I was like this, this is, this is what we're talking about. So she actually had gone to school for art history and then got a master's in interior design. At the time, penn State, which I don't think has an interior program didn't have an interior program, so I was like all right done, we're going to go for history and then I'm going to go to master's in interior design, and that's kind of what I did.
Speaker 1:So well, I guess, how did you? How did you get inspired to want to do architecture? I mean, was it just simply like your own personal interests and homes and designs? And you're like, oh, how do I make this into a career? Because that was later in your college years. I mean, what did you initially want to do when you entered college? Thing? I'm going to do a art history because I'm going to pursue this career.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it was. I think I knew I wanted to build a home environment. I think my parents went through some rough times growing up. They went through bankruptcy and there was like a moment in time that my mom just like I remember we were at this like furniture store and she had to decide on I don't know, it was like a couch or something, and she was just like she lost it because she couldn't make the decision and like they had to spend this amount of money or else they're going to lose it, like all like there was like this whole. It was like a lot of pressure in terms of like in terms of the house and like things in the house got like there was this complete disarray and I just remember feeling like I didn't want anybody ever have to go through that, like I was at that point. I was like I want to make spaces great for people, like I don't want anyone to feel awful in their space and like have to make really awful hard decisions on their own.
Speaker 2:Because that was like my mom was just like she couldn't make the decision. She just, you know, kind of broke down from all of that and then, and that was it, I was just like I wanted to make interior space good for people.
Speaker 1:What did you experience seeing your mom go through that? What was the feeling that you had seeing that?
Speaker 2:I wanted to save her. You know, that was it. It was like I've taken one of those like I forget what the tests are called, but I'm always been like this, the savior person, right. It's like I felt like I need to pick up the pieces and save her from that and so, like she couldn't decide on the fabric. And I remember I was young at that time and I was like, okay, mom, like three catches, this is the one I like, this is this one, this and this one. And like I tried to give her like the dissit, like an easier decision, as opposed to like this much larger decision. And then I remember I was like, picking out fabric, I was like you know, these are the two I like. Like you said, you like these two, which two?
Speaker 2:I was trying to like really get her to a better place, because I just like I just felt so bad. I'm not feeling like when I when people, when I see people feel things, I feel it too. This is why I won't like watch like sad movies, because I just like I can't lose it Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like I don't even know that person.
Speaker 1:I don't even know that dog.
Speaker 2:You know I was trying to hold it together and just like kind of safer and help her through that process.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I think what we do a lot of times, not that we're saving people, but sure you know like helping them, helping them make, make the decision, because it's hard decisions.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So when you're young, at that age, what did you think would happen if you did pick out the right fabrics, the right furniture and helped your mom with these decisions? I guess what did you envision was going to happen at that point? Like okay, now my mom will be happy, or now she'll feel protected, or like what was the feeling that you were chasing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like if she can make this decision she can move forward where I felt very stuck, and if it was like at least one thing could be good in her life, right, because there was a bunch of things that were not going well at the time. So I was, and I've, like I said, I've always kind of done that, like with my, my brothers and sisters too. It was like if I can just make them happy in this sense, like we can get, just get through this one hump, and then maybe that will kind of like help with any other things that are coming.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, you know, I just, I was just trying to make her just a little bit happy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, what was it like then? I guess, because you got, did you get your master's in interior design. Is that okay? So, after you had your master's and then you, you know, got your first job in the interior design world. What was that experience like?
Speaker 2:Oh, oh my gosh. Okay, this is so I got my master's. So I was at Penn State and I got my master's at New York School of Interior Design in New York. I knew I wanted to go to New York, Like I knew I had to be in a big city, because I was like, if I don't, if I don't try this out, like I never will.
Speaker 2:I want to get the best education, like I want to make sure I'm doing this right, because I had just come off of. I was like in undergrad I like I had a very high GPA. I was like super go getter, like I didn't go to any football games like I know this is like blasphemous, but like man, okay, I went to like a few, but I sat in like a nicer area, like I never sat a student section at Penn State.
Speaker 1:Oh my god.
Speaker 2:I was very like, I was so focused on school because it was like my. My past starts now like we need to, like make sure that we're doing everything right to get to the right right, so I don't know if you like the top person, whatever in the yeah architecture.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, I was where do you think that comes from that kind of attitude and mindset?
Speaker 2:I was okay. My mom always says I was a very difficult child, like not in, like I was a brat, but like very determined like I. She told me when I was like a baby, like I couldn't crawl, I couldn't figure out how to move, but I could figure out how to like push my feet and like shove myself across the floor to the point I get like rug burns on my face because I like needed to get somewhere. There's, there's like this infamous the letter K story where and it's funny, I still vividly remember this one of my friends her name was Krista and she had very nice handwriting. This is when we're like I don't know five, six, something like that.
Speaker 2:She I love the way she wrote a K, okay, and I I wanted to write as well as Krista did, and I remember trying to write her note like dear Krista, and I could not get the K to make it look like Krista's K and I lost it. I was, I was crying and my mom's trying to help me, like she's trying to write the K and I'm like no, I have to write the K and I have to write it perfectly, and eventually she just like stepped away because she's like I can't deal with, can't deal with this, and then eventually I ended up doing the K perfectly. But I've always had this like very like, very determined and perfectionist, that kind of mindset, like to the crazy level. But I think it really kicked into school, like in college, and it was like you're gonna do the best, you're like because we can't fail, like we can't fail at this point, like now is the time.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that mindset, um, you know, because when I hear you say that, um, I guess two things, which is, I guess it's something you're just born with in some sense, potentially maybe, yeah, and then. And then the other thing I think of is I don't know, that's gotta be really tiring, exhausting. Is it exhausting for you, or do you feel like your engines are revved by that?
Speaker 2:or sometimes I don't know it's like sometimes I don't know I'm in it there's sometimes I don't know. Sometimes I do so and I'll sit there like why can't? You just why can't you just be okay with, like I don't want to say mediocre, but why can't you just be okay with just the way it is?
Speaker 1:Why do I?
Speaker 2:have to constantly continue and continue and try to make this perfect. I get annoyed with myself and then I get right on top of that. So it's just like a-.
Speaker 1:Well, how do you answer that question? When you say why do I have to? How do you answer that for yourself?
Speaker 2:I answer that because it's always I tend to. I do it for other people. I would say If it's for a project, I'm like the project has to be right. I owe this to this person. They are expecting the best for me and I want to give the best to them because they deserve it. I'm always of that do better, be better. I expect that out of people and sometimes that's probably not right, but I especially expect it out of myself. I need to give 175% all the time.
Speaker 1:So when you give 175% and you're achieving the goals you set out for yourself, do you then feel elation and satisfaction, and is that the feeling you're chasing?
Speaker 2:I know I wish, I wish it's funny. Honestly, I'm going 175% and then I will finish and I'm like there's still that 25% that I felt like I probably could have done better. It's a hard mindset to be in. It's really kind of bad, but there are. There's definitely some moments. There's definitely some elation moments I've had, especially when I get to see people experience the work that I do. I think that's the biggest, that's the most elation I've ever had was actually seeing people experience and use and have comments on the space that I've designed and worked on because that's huge.
Speaker 2:That's what you're trying to do trying to get people, the experience and the space to be in.
Speaker 1:Well, when you then move to New York and you're now working in Manhattan, which is one of the most highly concentrated areas of people just like you, what does that experience like?
Speaker 2:It's great. Honestly, it's like maybe that's probably why You're like my people. Yes, I feel like I'm finally within. I just always felt pushed and pushed, and pushed. Even in school it was always not that growing up, people were not intelligent or educated, but there was definitely a different kind of drive, especially in New York, that you don't even see elsewhere. Compared to Lancaster. Now, the drive is different. It's awesome. I've worked at a lot of not a lot, but a few different places. It's always been really great to experience different people doing different things and pushing in different ways, because it pushed me to be better to a detriment sometimes, but it's just nice to be among that energy and looking for change and looking for the new, the next best thing that could really impact people's lives, specifically in design.
Speaker 1:Do you ever think about wanting to slow down, I guess, or operating in a different mode?
Speaker 2:Yes, I think that's probably why we've moved to Lancaster, a bit. Like I said, I'm a worker. I will continue to work in perfect. I got to a point, I don't know, like two or three years ago, where I was just pushing so much. I was at a firm that I love the firm. They were wonderful Again, one of those firms that really has really smart, intelligent people. I'm like how did you get this many intelligent people together? It's so much talent.
Speaker 2:But I was like 90 hours a week. I remember there was this one week that I would just work and then I'd take three hour naps for four days straight. I was like work, work, work and then a three hour nap here and there. It was just like it was so exhausting. It was during pandemic, so we were trying to figure things out and it was a lot.
Speaker 2:I think I got to that point where I had been doing maybe not necessarily 90 hour weeks, but 80 hour weeks for most of my life. I was just feeling really, really burnt out. I think that's it. I needed to step away from that, because I'm that type of person. It doesn't matter what I'm in, I'm going to give it my all. In those situations I don't want to say people are ready to take it, but if I can produce at this level, they'll continue to expect that of me to a detriment of. I just wasn't sleeping and I was just living a really awful lifestyle. The move to Lancaster, the move to the new our own company, I think, was part of that too. I was ready to take a step back and put my efforts into something a little bit different that I could have better control over. I still work a lot, let's be real.
Speaker 1:Yeah, running your own business is probably more work than actually working for a firm.
Speaker 2:But at least I feel like I've got a little better handle on it as opposed to just produce, produce, produce, produce until I just kind of end.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I definitely want to go into the story about how you decided to start your business. Before we get into that, I am curious about kind of going back to when you graduated college and you got your masters and you started your path in the interior design industry. Can you give us a little bit of insight what that world is like and your experience with it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Okay, this is funny. It's a funny story, but it was kind of sad at the time. I looked back on it now and I'm like I cannot watch the movie the Devil Wears Prada. I can't because it gives me really bad flashbacks. But my very, very first job in the interior design world because I was working for my college before that I got a job with an interior designer just as an intern At the time. They didn't have to pay you anything, so you work for free, you get like a subway card.
Speaker 2:Oh God, Just a subway, right, but you felt like you had to do it because otherwise you weren't going to get hired coming out of school. So I was just like, okay, I'll put up with it. And so it was just. It wasn't long.
Speaker 2:I worked for her for like a summer and she was in residential, like a high-end residential firm that she ran out of her home the first day I walked in. She had a project manager working for her who I think I may have been there an hour, who had an argument with her and stormed out and left and was like I Quit, and he like looked at me, is like, get out while you can. And I was like, no, okay, I didn't, I was still there. So, and I'm young, at this time I had no idea, right, like I had no idea what I was getting myself into. And and so I, I worked for her. I learned a ton, okay, I, I learned a ton of what Not to do, but there were some moments she never she was always very Good to me, I would say but there was like I, I learned from her how not to talk to people on the phone, right, like how to get things that you actually needed, hmm, a lot of a lot of her ways of doing things was very demanding and I Think, as a woman, you know, I think she Especially you know her age growing up on what she had to do and go through, I think a lot of times women had to, you know, just Just act, act. I was like act like a man but demand and like in order to get things that they wanted right, like I Watch that and I was like, okay, we're gonna take a different take, cuz that's my house, I do things.
Speaker 2:But I had some like her big, big stories of like, oh I, I returned sour milk for her once. She opened up milk and she told me it was sour and that she needed a refund. So I had to go down the street and return her milk. You know, like there was a, there was a stapler there was it's a swinger stapler. Right, like a 15 year old swinger stapler stopped working. She had hired another person at the time and she told me to tell that person you know you have to go to staples and get this fixed. And I'm like you know it's, you know it's kind of an old stapler man, we should just get like a new one. And she's like nope, tell them if they don't get it fixed and they don't come back. Yes, you know, it's just a lot, a lot of things like that that were just very unreasonable and like.
Speaker 2:But, like I said, she was never Awful to me, but I had moments of like what am I doing? Like I mean it's literally like the devil or primary. Like I was so, like I'm so young and naive that I just I didn't know. That's not how things went, like I was just trying my best to Just continue because I thought I needed, I needed the work, like I needed the experience, otherwise I wasn't gonna get a job right. So put up with it for a while. But I eventually, I eventually quit and thank God it did.
Speaker 2:But she still continued to call me and asked me like if I would come back, which I think was like telling of like what I did for her. But like it was, it was definitely I didn't learn much about design. To be honest, I didn't think I worked much on projects. Like I called around a lot and made sure like furniture was where it needed to be, and but I said a lot of returning of thing, of like her personal things and like Things like that and so, yeah, I came out of that.
Speaker 2:I was like, did I make the biggest mistake of my life? Like, if this is what I, I can't, I can't, um. But luckily I did get a job with someone after that. That like actually like made me feel better. Okay, it made me feel better about my, about what I had done, because he was, he was great, he again a high-end residential firm where, you know, I got to work Very closely with clients.
Speaker 2:You know, at that age I worked with him, like I think, the end of my like last year of school, and then I continued on with him after I graduated for a while and he trusted me with a lot of things that I not that I Shouldn't have been, but, like you know, I was pretty new in the field and like working very closely with clients and it Finally gave me like a okay, this is, this is what I should be doing. The actual design portions, like picking fabrics and designing, you know, custom furniture, and like working with the client to make sure, you know, the, the layouts are right and things are where they want them to be. But the high-end residential words very funny because it's you find out, you're, you're almost like like I'm gonna say like a, like a shrink, but like you know you're, you're getting told very personal things from a lot of the clients and sometimes I'm like I don't know you look, I cannot take in your feelings right now.
Speaker 2:Because you are. You're almost like a marriage counselor, of course, when there's money and decisions involved like. Not they like. It's hard to agree like what like how do they interlace that with design?
Speaker 1:because is it? Is it just because? Is it because you're an interior designer, or is it because they're a client and they just feel like they can tell these things to you? I mean, is that part of the design process that they end up sharing personal things?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean you're, you're working in their home a lot of times, so it is it's very personal, right. It's like, well, how do you like to sleep, right? Do you sleep hot like? Do you like Feather pillows, like you're getting into very like detailed things, like that is your closet. Look like how many you know Chanel purses do you have? Like what do we want like that? Like do we want them to display? Like you find out a lot of like very personal details of you know these people and you. You do have to really create like a really personal bond with them because they are trusting you, right like you are Making decisions on their behalf.
Speaker 2:Sometimes right, and you know and trying to really Understand from their psyche, like what is it that you're actually looking this, looking for in this space? So you, you do have to be very close to them. But sometimes you're like you know, and and. Again it's like husbands and wives, like for partners, you know, don't always agree on, on what they want in their house, and so again it's like trying to find that like happy point for everybody. See, that is why you're like that, the mediator in between. But again, like you do, right, right, I don't know about that Interesting.
Speaker 1:So how do you then, you know, with these, people with different views, or even if it was just an individual, how do you bring their vision to life? As a designer, like, I'm always so curious about that with people who to design Like how, because I often struggle with like even with my own space. Like I like so many things and it's hard to choose one thing. And like I want my room to feel like this, but I also want to feel like this too.
Speaker 1:Like, how do you actually bring it to life? Yeah, I mean, a lot of times we do.
Speaker 2:We're actually, most of time, we do do things like a mood and like concept board. So we are a lot about, especially at the firm we are now. We focus on a lot about like mood, like how do you want to feel in the space? Like, do you want to feel like you just walked into a spa or do you want to feel like you're in, you know, like a club in Germany, like what is it that you're like, really wanting to feel in the space, and we kind of work from there and and we start to look at you know, what is some of the artwork that you're interested in. What, like?
Speaker 2:What kind of clothing do you wear? Like, because all these things are tellers of like what it is that you actually like as a person that you want to see and be surrounded by. And I think I always love to kind of meld things together. Like right now, our house is like an 1800s, like Roeholm, but we're bringing in modern aspects, so it's like bringing the two together. So I don't think you always have to be like, oh, farmhouse, like it doesn't have to have a theme, right, it's what you know. What is it going to express in your personality and what's it going to pull out of you and the feeling that you want.
Speaker 2:So if you want to get into the space and you want to feel like you're in a different space and you're going to pull out of you and the feeling that you want, so if you want to be Boho you know art deco, chic we can totally do that. We just have to find the components that work together, that can kind of meld and and create the vision that it is that you want and that you know that's why you hire designers, right?
Speaker 2:It's like so we can take all those parts and pieces from your brain. We can like and put them together and something that like, makes sense and makes your eyes just like feel good, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah well, I guess, with everything you've seen working in New York City in different firms, why decide to start your own design firm?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's an interesting one because I don't think I ever thought. I was never like. I said, I always knew I was going to go the art history to Interior design route, but I was never like, oh, I'm going to start my own firm, but after going through a lot of different, different firms, you know I like I started in residential but I've also done like, like, like straight commercial work. I've been in hospitality, I've been on a client side, I've done a lot of different, different types of work in the interiors field and I felt like Everything I was like everything was the same in terms of like how we did things.
Speaker 2:But I think in in general design has We've been very, I say, downplayed in terms of like what our, what our services are. I think because for a while there's so many design firms right, all we do is really just kind of like, cut each other down in terms of like fees and you end up doing stuff for so, oh, so cheap and you and what you produce is so, it's so important and it's hard for clients to understand the importance of what a good space actually does. So I think for me and you know my husband also started this with me we really wanted to focus in on a different type of firm that was very much expressive of like. We talked about like, that mood and that feeling and really bringing that to clients and like and showing like what that actually does for space. But also thinking about design in a different way, as much more of a product as opposed to a service.
Speaker 1:What does a well-designed space do for someone Like? What are the benefits?
Speaker 2:I think well, design it's again, it's something that you probably wouldn't know and again, but it's all tied to that, like that feeling that you have in a well-designed space, like you don't have to think about something when it's a well-designed space. In our firm we talk about the experience, right. So one of the experiences we were talking about recently was like a restaurant where, like a really great restaurant has a really nice entry and whenever you're greeted, you're greeted with a specific type of person and they lead you into this kind of direction and then they have like a place to put your purse. It's like things that you wouldn't think about, but when you're experiencing it it just feels right. It's like, of course I wouldn't want to put my purse on the ground, or of course, you want to hang it in the back and have a server whip it off. It's like thinking about what people need before they need it.
Speaker 2:And it's interesting like I've worked in a hospitality firm before and that's kind of as like you design for what people need before they actually think about it. And that's what a well-designed space is supposed to do. It's supposed to be easy, it's supposed to feel good. You shouldn't walk in and it be loud and you can't hear anything. And again it's hard to say like a well-designed space needs, like XYZ, but I think it is. It's supposed to make you feel happy and good and remember the space, but also not think of it like missing things, of what you need, you know when you were talking.
Speaker 1:It really made me think of an episode I just recorded a few weeks ago with my friend who is. When we worked together. Her role was actually director of connection and I call her the hospitality queen because she is literally like the best at like connecting people, creating spaces for people, and the way she defined hospitality is that it's not about. It's not about like for hospitality in your home. It's not about like the table linens or like the well-decorated space, even though that is a part of it. She said it's really about I've thought of you and there's a space for you, so you know, if you're coming over, you're gluten free. I got gluten free snacks for you and like the meal is gluten free because I've thought of you and there's a space for you here and like hearing you talk is just like reminding me of that conversation with her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, do you think big challenges like starting your own I mean starting your own business is is really hard in itself, and then starting your own design firm to be competitive in this field, so it's really hard. Do you feel like challenges like that serve your nature or is going to like I don't know. It's like do we feed the machine, meaning you know who's like. I got to do everything a thousand percent. You know, or is it something that's like this is going to destroy me?
Speaker 2:It's funny, I haven't felt the destroy which is a good thing I think I do, you think it feeds me. Again, it can get a little dicey in terms of like, oh, like, we need to sleep. You know there's been moments where we've had a lot of long nights, but knowing that I'm I'm working towards and like putting my full energy into something that I believe in and that I honestly do think will, like I can, like it will help people and we're going to make a change, like that.
Speaker 2:That's so valuable to me and like it's the driver and it keeps me going and, like it does, feed me, it makes me feel good.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So it's funny, it's like it's the complete opposite of what I was feeling at. Those other jobs were always felt like I was giving my all and like I love the people and I loved. You know, I love working with the people there, but I just I felt like I wasn't working towards something that was going to make a difference. So, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1:so people who are, you know, listening, and for me to, are there some interior design like faux pas where you're like, okay, we got to stop doing this. Here's how we like, here's just some tidbits to like make your space better, maybe in the bedroom? Like what are we not doing right in the bedroom? I mean, that could that sounds like a euphemism but like what are we not doing right in the bedroom that we can make better to feel, I don't know, a place of relaxation and good sleep, because a lot of people suffer from, you know, bad sleep and not getting quality sleep, like what can? How can we design our bedrooms better?
Speaker 2:Let's see, I'm kind of think and it's funny like we always talk about like I never want a dog on anybody on anything like.
Speaker 2:Because I've seen a lot of things like oh, like this, you know, this design is awful and like I've never wanted that. I just always try to think of, like you know what, what would make me happier in the space. I do think a lot of times what we, what we miss, is lighting. I think if you think about lighting in terms of like layers, you should really always have like three layers of lights and a lot of me.
Speaker 1:What's light, what's what's layers of light?
Speaker 2:Okay, Like different levels of lighting that you can. You can control right. So, typically, like in your house, most homes have something like an architectural lighting, like a, like a downlight, like in your ceiling right.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Like architectural lights, and usually people are like that's fine, that's all I need. But what we like to do is we like to add in like you call it like almost like mood lighting, but you have additional lighting that you add into things like table lamps, things like floor lamps, pendants, sconces, that provide an additional layer of light, like, like, instead of having to turn on your right bright lights every single night and that's it, you should have some sort of, you know, softer lighting, reading lamps, like next to your bedside table, or a floor lamp. That way you can kind of set the mood and, as opposed to being like completely on and completely off, and that kind of that can be applied to everywhere throughout the home. I mean, you see kitchen pendants like mm-hmm, but there's, there's additional layers to that.
Speaker 1:When you say three layers, you're saying like, for example, like recess lights, and then there's like floor lamps, and then there's table lamps, like those are the layers.
Speaker 2:I feel like table lamps and floor lamps are the same, but another one that we miss often is things like sconces, like wall sconces Okay, what do sconces do, though?
Speaker 1:because I just like it's just, it's like so, like centralized, is it really even? Yeah, like I don't even think about sconces.
Speaker 2:I love good sconces A lot of times you can have them on dimmers, right, so you can set the light level, and really your, your downlining should be on dimmers so you can set the right, the right light level. But it's just another again, it's another layer that that adds to to the space. It's not just like on and off. A little bit more control, and is it a little bit more focused, right, like something like like task lighting, like that should be at your bedside, so when you kind of read at night, you know, finish the Sudoku, whatever it is that you're trying to do, you know you can you have that level, so it's not just like you know, your lighting is on, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Where do I put sconces in the bedroom? So what? Where do I put sconces in the bedroom?
Speaker 2:like next to your bed, oh, next to my bed. Yeah, like some clients have ones that like you can like, they've got like an arm that you can like.
Speaker 1:Love those. I had one sconce. I guess I do have a sconce. I didn't realize those sconce, but one little light I got on Amazon and it like I use it. Yeah, I'll turn that on at night when I go to bed.
Speaker 2:And I think another thing is to it's like light, like color of light. You know, blue light is very hard on the eyes, right. So If you're working, I think we tend to say on like a 3000 Kelvin, which is a little bit more bluer, but like the warm kind of nice lighting that we like homes is a 2700 K. So I love lighting. I get like all amped up about like oh, that's like such a cool fixture and every time we're in like a restaurant or a store, always like looking at, like what the lighting is doing is. It can be it can be like really harsh. You know, you can feel like you're in a doctor's office.
Speaker 1:Totally Just like, feel it, just like, yeah, you know with your, with your firm, what's the impact you guys are hoping to have? Like how will you know you were successful like 10 years down the road, 20 years on the road?
Speaker 2:Good question. I again. I think it's like I was like changing the way people live, but I think I think impacting people's lives and giving people the choice to have a, have a better designed space or piece of furniture or lighting, and they're able to have that and to see that in people's lives, and incorporating that in and and seeing a change and seeing happiness come from that, I think that's, that's success to me. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, going back and forth between laying can't Lancaster and New York City, like what is. I guess I'm speak from my experience which is like I guess you know, if you go to New York City you're like, yeah, like what you said before my people, you know, we're all on overdrive trying to give a thousand percent in everything we do.
Speaker 1:But it's not like that in the rest of the country. And then you know, lancaster, pennsylvania, is like even more farm town, kind of a feeling, that kind of juxtaposition of these two places. Do you feel like it balances you or do you feel out of place, like I feel so different because here I am living the small town and then I have this ambition of, like you know, starting my own business and my own interior design firm, trying to do things in a different way, like I don't know. Do you feel different? Or like what feelings come up for you with that experience?
Speaker 2:I go back and forth with it. Honestly, sometimes I'm like how did I end up here? You know, I'm like it's just not and this is never what I expected. But then other times I'm kind of like, oh it's. It's actually really nice to have the balance and I think that's where I land more. You know, it's like it's really nice to go back and visit the city and I'm kind of happy when I leave to, because there's so many things about the city. I'm like I don't miss that. Everything is so hard and in the city, you know, everything is a struggle, which is probably what makes it great. But it's, it's nice to be able to visit, stop in, enjoy all the great things about it.
Speaker 2:But then go back to someplace like Lancaster, where it's a much smaller town, feel people are so friendly, like yeah, so friendly it was almost shocking like like people would say hi to you on the sidewalk what do you want from me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't have any money, like I don't, I don't carry cash, right, you know it's like. But then they just they really were just saying hi and they're wondering how your day was, you know. So it's kind of I feel like I kind of get the best of both worlds now and what we're seeing more and more, especially with, you know, working remote, like like we said, you know, when our partners is based in in New York and Brooklyn and I literally pretty much we're on zoom almost like every day, working together, together and it's kind of a it's allowed a lot of people to go away from the city and experience new things. So it's kind of cool. When we met some of our neighbors in Lancaster recently and they're all all interesting people kind of coming from different places, like their across from us, as a photographer who lived in Philly and you know he saw the opportunity to we all kind of found this like opportunity to like move to a smaller place, a Ford more and kind of create. We're almost like this, like group of creatives.
Speaker 2:Now there's like a furniture dealer who, like lives down the street.
Speaker 2:There's the guy next door to me who is like in, like he's sound engineering but we're all kind of able to work remotely, which is really cool and that and it's great and I think it's kind of nice to bring some of the New York ideas to places like Lancaster. You know Change is hard, it's going to be hard and we realize this, like working on our house and you know doing things differently than you know properly what our GC is typically used to. But it's kind of nice to inject that and like have other people see, you know kind of what we were seeing in the city, and bring that here and like I'm going to say, expect to like have some elevated design, allow people to see something different, and I, lancaster's been open, they've been open to it, so I'm kind of excited to like kind of bring and inject that into into smaller towns and, you know, across the US because because you know, like I said, everybody should be able to see that and get to see kind of the new and you know, see change.
Speaker 1:So so I'm going to ask a question which I don't know. There's no, there's no moral judgment behind the question, even though maybe it could be proposed that way, because this is something that I have been kind of. I guess, I don't know, I guess I've been like grappling with this question for myself to, because, I don't know, moving to the suburbs and like a lot of I guess. What I'm curious to know is like, why work so hard?
Speaker 2:That's true. Why I think I honestly I work hard for me. That's it. If I wasn't driven by my own efforts, I probably wouldn't, but for me I would say that's what fulfills me. It sounds awful, but if I don't feel like I've put the effort in, I don't feel like I've done enough, and it's fine.
Speaker 2:We had this conversation where there was a person who used to work at her office who she well, you and I were at the convene office together, and it was funny.
Speaker 2:She gave this advice to this person who was kind of wondering why she didn't get a raise, or there's something about whatever, there was something about monetary. She didn't get the raise she wanted. And I remember her saying to her something along the lines of like you need to work as hard as you possibly can, because when the day comes that the opportunity drops, you need to be ready. And if you're not working your hardest, if you're not learning, progressing, when that day comes, you're not going to be ready and you're going to fail. And if you've done everything that you possibly can and you've worked your hardest, you're going to be ready that day and you're going to take off from there. And I was like that's so you're right. I think that's the drive right. I want to make sure I'm ready for anything that could put us in a better position or progress the company or make me a better person. I want to be ready for that opportunity and I think that's why I just work that hard.
Speaker 1:But I guess what opportunity. Because you have your own business and obviously getting consistent revenue is major for the business to be successful and for your own life and stuff like that. But I guess, just in terms of life in general, I mean, it's not easy. I'm sure it's tiring you, driving it's hours back and forth and then meeting clients like clients are demanding and stuff like that what is it all for?
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean, I guess it is. Maybe it's the job that puts you on the map, maybe it's the job that hooks you up with the right person to create that product that you wanted to do. Again, if you can't know, I don't know what it is, but I want to make sure if the opportunity presents itself. I'm not like, oh, I should have worked harder, I should have went down that avenue, and I'm not quite sure what that opportunity is, but I just want to be ready for it if it's available to me.
Speaker 1:Do you feel like you're compromising on any parts of your life for the sake of these more professional goals? I mean not that it's just strictly professional and personal, because there's personal development in your professional goals as well but do you feel you're compromising parts of your life for the sake of your business?
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, I definitely think so. I mean, yeah, like kids right, we haven't even thought about. I mean, we have the conversation, right, but yeah, it's like, at this point I'm like I'm not ready. I'm not ready, I'm not ready to be a mom. If I were to become pregnant tomorrow, I mean I'd be happy, but I don't think I would be ready.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you're ever really ready to have kids, but I feel like I want to accomplish more before we get to that point. So I think there is some of that like putting stuff on the back burner, like family and social things. Social things I mean social things are great, but I'm having to say no to a lot of things because we're going to go work at the house this weekend. We're cocking all of our faceboards and doing the painting ourselves, because we want to make sure that it's right, because, like we said, this is going to be a product that we're showing as Marlon Kroff, so we want to make sure it's getting done the right way. So, yeah, I think there is definitely some sacrifices in pursuing this, but you got the right people who are able to lift you up and understand them, and such too.
Speaker 1:So I mean, like I said from the beginning of my questioning which is not there's no moral judgments on this, because I think for me a lot of it is my own internal grappling and then I hear the same kind of very similar stories with different people too. Like I had another girl I interviewed who's a friend of mine like a couple of months ago and she's a full-time police officer. She runs two of her own businesses and she kind of said a similar thing which was like I just want to before I get married, I want to accomplish certain things and all these things, but I don't know, do you think you'll be worth it in the end? Let's just say what's the best case scenario for your business.
Speaker 2:I guess the best case scenario I mean that it becomes successful and then it can continue to run and eventually we talked about having people that we work with, that work for the company be able to take it over and continue it, like I would love to see it continue on and on, and however long it needs to continue on. So, yeah, I think creating something that others can be proud of and be a part of again while creating and making change, I think that's successful to me what do your parents say about your career path as it is now?
Speaker 2:So they've been very supportive. I think they do have some reservations sometimes because they started their own business too and it did not go well and it goes probably about the same age as we are now. So they obviously had the parent in them. That's kind of like be careful, make sure you're doing the right things. But, like I said, my mom is always known. I've been a very determined, I'm going to do it kind of person, so they've been very supportive. But sometimes I also wonder do you actually know what we do?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, because you're like.
Speaker 2:So true. Sometimes I think they're like oh, you know, like you're just painting walls or something.
Speaker 2:I'm like no, like a little bit more yeah yeah, I've been happy I've been able to show them some of the spaces that we've done and they're kind of like oh, wow, but again still not like really 100% comprehending like how much effort and work is into it. But they've been super supportive and obviously they let us live in their house, so they've always been very supportive about it. But I mean, I know there's people whose parents probably would have an absolute like what are you doing, mm-mm?
Speaker 1:But I think, not necessarily like what are you doing, but maybe just seeing you work so hard. Yes, I mean like I just feel like if I saw my kid and I don't have kids but if I saw my kid and they're like busting their butt, like I'm sure in some ways it's like hey, good for you, but also like why are you working so?
Speaker 2:hard. Yeah Well, I think back when I was doing those like 90 hour weeks, and again, I'm not one to like, like, complain Right, I'm like I'll do the hard work, I'm fine. I think I called my mom, maybe once or twice, maybe it was once, and I called crying and she's like you need to quit. She's like you work so hard, you need to quit. And I was like I can't quit, like I can't quit her. I didn't quit, but she does.
Speaker 2:She knew what I was doing and had an idea. She always knew I was working hard, but I don't think she quite knew the extent. And she was like you need to end this. And I think there has been a change since we've started the business that she sees a different work. Like she always notes like, oh, you guys are working again. Like, oh, it's the weekend, you guys work too hard. But I think she understands very much. So, like that, it's work for something, for myself, for a better reason. So she kind of supports it. But she, yeah, I think I would too, like if I saw, sometimes, I think like if I saw myself, like if I saw myself as a kid, I'd be like, oh, that's all you need to chill.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a curious thing and maybe it's more of a New York thing, but, like you know, I feel like so many of us do work so much. At the same time, like I understand that part of like it is fulfilling, like there is something like you know, because I have a really good friend of mine where she's very good about like her boundaries and like what's enough for her, and I feel like I'm not like I don't know. People have made that comment like, oh, you do so much. I'm like I don't really feel like I do that much because I just genuinely enjoy what I'm doing and it doesn't feel laborious in that way, and so for me it's more fun to like work on something and tinker with something than it is to just like.
Speaker 1:I think I'd just like be so bored to death being home and just like chill, I don't know, chilling and doing nothing, I guess. But at the same time it just feels like you know, I don't know, I guess maybe it's my own selfishness of like. I just wish we were more communal as a society, because I feel like we're like so in. I feel like most of the time people are pretty unhappy, but it might not just be that we overwork, but it's like we don't really commune together. You know, and I don't know, that's like my own whole like thing, we just work too much, but like we don't really like spend time with each other. You know, like humans, like when I'm like a really good friend of mine and like I don't hear that much you know yeah cause we get so caught up in what we're doing.
Speaker 1:And yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally, I hear you. I also think it's like a product of the age group we were growing up and like you were kind of told like you have to go to college cause you're not gonna get a job. Like there was a lot of pressure, Like we were like the max out. I always felt like we were the max out generation, where it was like like you have to constantly be doing better and better and better, You're not gonna get a job. Like if you don't get all A's, you're not gonna be successful. And I feel like that's probably like kind of come into like our work as well, where it's like if I don't continue to work, if I don't continue to produce, like I'm gonna get fired, which is like so not the case, but like that, that's the mindset. I think what we're kind of used to is like you have to do all these things, Otherwise you're just gonna fail, You're never gonna make it and you're gonna be poor and live under a bridge and you know, never, yeah, Never open. I don't know.
Speaker 1:I guess I have a lot of exes. I periodically have existential crises. I'm just like but like the fact that we're alive and we do these things, I'm like, is it worth it? Like, is this how life is supposed to be? You know, I don't know, it's just, it's crazy if you think about we're alive, Like we're living and we're gonna eventually die one day, and then it's like does this matter? What I'm doing right now.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Yeah, exactly, I don't know. I had those moments before like what, what are we doing here? Although I think to your point, like I could not just sit around and not do something, Like that's not in my personality, Like I mean even just going down like the typical path, like that just was never gonna work for me, Like I just I hopped around from job to job because I just it was something I got bored, Like I had plenty to do, but it would be like this is not for me. Like the same thing every day, repetitive. Like this is not for me, Next job, same thing. Like I like to explore and I like to push the limits, you know and just try.
Speaker 1:Where did you find that like courage to kind of just do that, cause it is safe to just follow the path? Like, where did you find the gumption to be like you know what? I'm not really feeling this, I'm gonna go do something else.
Speaker 2:I mean I think I've gone through a lot of like emotional breakdowns. Like we're like really understanding and I do this a lot with people is like really try to understand the mindset. Like like, when people say, like mean things right, I'm always like, well, they didn't. They're just not a mean person. Like what was the driver Right? What made them say that? Because they were obviously thinking something. Like they obviously had a thought, had a feeling that made them say something mean.
Speaker 2:So I like self-analyzed myself throughout the years and I think that's the very last, so the very last job that I had, like in like the typical place. I just self-examined for a while. I didn't know why I wasn't happy. And I got the next job Cause I thought, oh, maybe the next job will make me happy, cause it was in a different field, a different part of interior design Still didn't make me happy, and it was like from one to the next, to the next, and then I just started to like it was like a self realization of like okay, it's not them, it's you, you're the problem. So let's figure out what it is.
Speaker 2:And I even went through a moment where I was like I hate design, I'm not gonna do it. I thought about going into like like movie set design, something like that. I don't know Like. I went through like cause I just knew something wasn't, something was not clicking, and it just took a while for me to like figure it out that it was it had to do with the normalcy path, because that was. That was just not for me, and I had a. It was like a leadership conference thing or a leadership like training class at convene. That it was. It was cool because they almost like they like analyzed you like as a person. One of the things that they told me and that I self realized there too was like you're not, you always wanna do, you always wanna veer from what like society tells you.
Speaker 1:I've never. I'm not like a rebel right, like I'm not like that.
Speaker 2:I love rules. I do Like I just follow rules, but like I've always been one to like, forge my own path, like if I've seen something wrong, I wanna veer off and change it and better, and so, like hearing that also and like again, self analyzing, just being like this is not, this is not for me. Like this, I continue to change and change and change and change to different companies, but it's never gonna be better, like it's always gonna be the same. So, yeah, it took a minute, but figured it out.
Speaker 1:Figured out like I need to forge my own path and yeah, yeah, that makes sense, Cause, like that obviously resonated with you. That's like, okay, this is, this is me, you know. And again, I think that's what's interesting about what, what seems, what seems to drive you is not necessarily the achievement per se, but maybe it is the helping and then the, the fixing, almost you know. Yeah, Not okay not to have a therapy session here at all, but like, do you ever do you, do you feel like you are enough?
Speaker 2:No, oh God, no, no, I never feel like I'm enough. I never. And again, probably a product of like I've I've always like, but like I need to do better and do better and do better and I don't know when I'm ever going to feel like I'm enough. We have this conversation often. It's like when are you going to ever feel like you've done enough and you've been successful? Because I tend to, like I said I, I give so much, so, so much. But I still sit there and think about the things that, like I probably could have done better, like I probably could have, you know, spent a little bit more time on, and like in retrospect, when other people look at the work, they're like it's, it's great, but like to me, I still don't feel like I'm doing enough, that I'm, I'm trying as hard as I can and producing better for the people you know like I could do better.
Speaker 1:I could be better. Well, okay, so let's separate those two things, because, instead of about like I could be, I could do better, as in like okay, there's some lessons learned in here, something's going to improve. That's separate from I'm enough, even though, like, like my own value, I mean and that might even sound too high in the sky, but like, um, I don't know. Like, let's just say all this, I don't know, like that even sounds too crazy, like too broad to, but like, even in like the relationships, do you feel like I need to keep like performing in a certain way or giving in a certain way so that I'll be accepted? And like I'm? Like are you alone or just enough as a person of like you don't need to do anything, but like you alone, just for who you are, not for anything you do, is enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think I. It's like I know I should, I know I should feel like I'm enough, like I know that, but then I I'd never feel like that, right, I always it's fine. So this is a good example. My brother is getting married in February and my mom is throwing a shower for his fiance here because her family is in Ohio and it's whatever it's coming up.
Speaker 2:And I was sitting there talking to Brett, my husband, and I was, you know, I was telling him like oh, this is what we have to do. And I was like, oh gosh, I should probably start the invitations. And he's like your sister and your mom can make the invitations. You don't have to do that. But I'm like, but I feel like I need to do that. And he's like, nobody asked you right, like nobody asked you to do those things.
Speaker 2:But I just I always feel like I need to do more and like, do it for my mom, do it for Jess, my you know, soon to be sister in law. Like, do it so my sister doesn't have to think about it. You know, it's like I always put that onus on myself, that like I need to do more for other people, like because they are. They give to me, I need to give back, I need to give back more, make it easier for them. And he's always like you're, like you're doing enough, like you're fine, you're doing plenty, I promise. But yeah, I definitely, I definitely always take that role and I always feel like I need to do more and I don't know.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know what that's about and I get. I self-analyze very often. I'm like you're. You know you stand in the mirror like you are not, but it's hard to remember that it really is. Yeah, yeah it really, really is, and I think we all go through that right, like I don't know how you, how you feel about it, but I always, I don't know, we always yeah, I think you should.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'd be curious if you write the enneagram and what number resonates with you. You got me pegged. Oh man, Well, it, just it, just like. Oh, interesting, I mean again, I'm not asking for to like figure that out at all, but it's, I mean, these are just questions I ask myself to, of like, because sometimes we just do things and we just, like you said, a lot of it we're grown up with and we're told to, you know, perform and and succeed in a certain way, and you know, again, this is like living by myself, Like you do have a lot of time to think. I'm like what, you know, what's the purpose of this? Like, why are we doing this? What's the meaning of life?
Speaker 2:You know it's definitely great questions because, like, why do you do things Right? Like what? Like, yeah, why are you putting yourself through hoops and things? And it's a great question to ask and I don't know. But I also think on the other terms, like if I were to be doing the opposite, would I be happy. I don't think so.
Speaker 1:Like Well maybe it's not so much about doing the opposite. It's like what motivates you. You know, and like, and maybe in some ways you would be happier, like in the relationship aspect, you know, because it's like if I'm driven by, like I got to keep up with these relationships by doing these things, like you might feel anxiety if I'm not doing these things, and it's just like no one even thought about you that way, you know, and like they, just like you for you, so like don't worry, no, it's so true.
Speaker 2:And like again, like my family is so supportive, like mm. Hmm, I know they do, but like I just I don't know. I always just like fear, that like maybe they won't love me if I do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, that's so true, that feeling is very real.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know, it's like it's a great question, it's like mysteries, I don't know yeah. I think we all have a kind of I definitely need to go to therapy 100 percent because I think it's so important and, like I have friends who are in therapy and it's like it's it's changed their lives and I think prior, you know, back in the day, but when we were growing up, therapy was such a taboo.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so taboo. Oh gosh, you go to therapy. What's wrong with you?
Speaker 2:Exactly, and like parents wouldn't talk about it, Like if their kids were going to therapy. Right, it's crazy or something.
Speaker 2:And now it's so healthy, like it's so healthy to talk to. I mean, you're like my therapist right now. I appreciate it. But it's like it's so healthy to talk about things with people like other people, other than like your typical circle, because you see outside of yourself and it's going to see. You know, you can see what they're seeing in you, right, a lot of times you can't see that because you're just so blindsided by yourself, so 1000%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like I need to get on that Like yeah healthy, just to like, talk it out with someone, analyze why I'm doing the things I'm doing. What? What's going to fill my, my sister eyes is like, what's going to fill your cup? You know, like, like you, you can't. She tells me all the time you can't keep giving if your cup is empty. Right, you need to fill your cup and I'm like that is your right. I don't know what to fill it with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, a thousand percent, yes, I mean OK. Well, thank you for indulging me on all my questions. Just to wrap things up, there are two questions I ask every guest, which is first is what do you do for fun or play?
Speaker 2:Well, that's a good question. That's a good question right now, because all I do is like I work a lot right now I'm like I'm really like focused in our house, but I we have picked up pickleball, so yes so my dad, he he had a kidney transplant, which is last year, so it's been a year and he's like ready to be active again, which is like really awesome.
Speaker 2:So, he loved tennis before, really good tennis player. But tennis is hard I mean hard on the body, like I just play tennis to and like I got like the tennis elbow or whatever, yeah, so now we've picked up pickleball and it's great I get, I play with my mom and dad and and Brett and just like a lot of fun. It's like just like a giant life size, like ping pong table.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so cool. Yeah, I want to learn to play pickleball too. Just looks like so much fun. And for me, tennis I could never pick up the racket. Like just holding the racket, I'm like, oh, my wrists are so weak I can't even hold this. Like so awkward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, pickleball, it's much smaller and like yeah those are, you know with? I guess they're with footballs or whatever they are.
Speaker 1:But it's a lot later, what easier on the back we'll say I'm with that, I'm for that, yeah, ok. Last question is what would you tell your younger self?
Speaker 2:Oh, I tell my younger self, I think I would tell my younger self to trust more in myself. I've always been one to. I don't want to say second guess, but like kind of have that self doubt of you know, am I doing this right? Is is, what am I doing? Is it making sense? Am I making the right decision? Is this going in the right path? And I would say, most of the time, trusting your gut. You know like that that's all you need to do Like you usually are right most of the time. Sometimes you're wrong, but most of the time to really like believe in yourself and really and trust in yourself and your abilities because you know like what you're feeling is right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right. Well, we'll end it there. What's the story behind your job? Why are you in the profession that you are in? Let me know in the reviews. I'd love to hear from you. I hope you enjoy the conversation. Until next week, see you.