What if we could break through the armor life teaches us to build, and reconnect with the joy of childhood? In a heartfelt conversation with executive coach Trudy Chapman, we explore the power of vulnerability and self-awareness in shaping our lives and businesses. Trudy shares her unique perspective, honed by her rich life experiences and 32 years of running her own businesses, as we delve into the importance of choosing our own path and organizing our work to fit our lives.
We discuss moving past our human predisposition to focus on the negative, and instead, allowing ourselves to be open to the positive. Trudy and I explore how to build new neural pathways through engaging in meaningful conversations, practicing gratitude, and "letting in the good."
Join us as we journey through the complexities of life decisions, and the importance of putting people and heart first when building a successful business. Get ready to be inspired and uplifted in this powerful episode with Trudy Chapman.
Thank you for listening!
Do you know someone or have a topic you would like featured on the podcast? Leave a review and let me know! I'd love to hear from you!
What if we could break through the armor life teaches us to build, and reconnect with the joy of childhood? In a heartfelt conversation with executive coach Trudy Chapman, we explore the power of vulnerability and self-awareness in shaping our lives and businesses. Trudy shares her unique perspective, honed by her rich life experiences and 32 years of running her own businesses, as we delve into the importance of choosing our own path and organizing our work to fit our lives.
We discuss moving past our human predisposition to focus on the negative, and instead, allowing ourselves to be open to the positive. Trudy and I explore how to build new neural pathways through engaging in meaningful conversations, practicing gratitude, and "letting in the good."
Join us as we journey through the complexities of life decisions, and the importance of putting people and heart first when building a successful business. Get ready to be inspired and uplifted in this powerful episode with Trudy Chapman.
Thank you for listening!
Do you know someone or have a topic you would like featured on the podcast? Leave a review and let me know! I'd love to hear from you!
Welcome to Making Way Podcast, a podcast about finding your own path in life. We're sharing stories to encourage you to live your life how you want to live it and not how you're supposed to. It takes time to shape and discover who we are. We grow, we evolve. It's our life experiences that reveal to us who we are and who we choose to be. It's a lot easier to follow a path laid out for us, but I think it's much more fulfilling to follow a path we choose. Charge your own path and take the time to find out who you are. Your unique combination of DNA and experiences make you who you are. Today's guest helps people do this every day.
Speaker 1:Trudy Chapman is an executive coach in life and business. I'm excited to share the wisdom and depth of Trudy. She brings a unique perspective shaped by her rich life experiences. Her coaching sessions are infused with a deep sense of care and understanding, empowering individuals to embark on meaningful change and reconnect with their authentic selves. Throughout the episode, trudy shares invaluable insights, emphasizing the importance of self-awareness, kindness and reconnecting with the joy and aliveness of our childhood selves. I hope you enjoy the episode. Where are you from?
Speaker 2:Well, that takes a little while. Where am I from? Well, i have some indigenous roots. I could do a placing myself in that. I'm the daughter of Gary and Cynthia. My dad, gary, is from Fort Francis and my mom is from Timmins, ontario.
Speaker 2:But my dad was in the military, in the Canadian military, for 25 years, so I've lived in a lot of places We moved. That was a radar tech, so up in Canada here we had something called the Doo Line, distant early warning line. So he was in the military in the 1960s, 70s and into the 80s. So when I was going into what was called Grade 12 here in Ontario, we moved to Ottawa for a brief eight months where we studied Hebrew because we were being posted to Tel Aviv, israel. So I went to the University of Tel Aviv at that point And then after that my parents were then posted to Rome, italy, for four years.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so I've lived in Newfoundland, which is our most eastern province, newfoundland, labrador. I spent a lot of time living in Ontario with dad's military stuff And then, when I ventured out onto my own, i lived in Kingston, ontario, which is just on Lake Ontario, just sort of north of New York State. I lived also on Vancouver Island, which is our far western province of British Columbia. So I have lived in many places in Canada and a couple of places overseas, and so How did your?
Speaker 1:parents meet.
Speaker 2:In the military.
Speaker 1:So your mom was in the military as well.
Speaker 2:She was. She was What did she do? A lot of administrations kind of stuff. From what I understand, she was training to be a aircraft what do you call it? the people who plot the planes and manage all that stuff Air traffic control, air traffic control. She wasn't particularly suited to it, so then she retooled into a clerical position. But the thing was, in those days when my parents married, women weren't allowed to be married and be in the military. So she wanted them had to leave, and it was her. Yeah, so very, very different day from what we know today, right, so, yeah, so women were, and that wasn't just the military, that was pretty much anywhere in North America in the 1960s. If you were a woman who was married, priority was given to the men for the jobs because they had families and a woman working was optional, and that was in the States as well as it was in Canada. So this is something that we can't even get our heads around right now right Sure Like how dare they How?
Speaker 2:dare they What the?
Speaker 1:heck Yeah, with such a colorful upbringing, of moving to a lot of places and experiencing a lot of people, and especially having the experience of moving overseas. When you move back home, i guess, to finish university and then to, i guess, at this point, really start your own life on your terms, do you remember what you wanted from life at that point in time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, i don't remember thinking much about it, like I was a thoughtful person, but not thoughtful in that way.
Speaker 1:Or even just career-wise, like, oh, this would sound interesting. I'm sure you've seen so many things like, oh, that would be fun, or I don't know.
Speaker 2:Well, I always thought that I wanted to do journalism, so it's interesting that I went back to it, or I went to it. 10 years later I have a master's in journalism and I have worked as a journalist. I have my undergraduate degree is in international relations and I was interested in that kind of work. I had applied to do a master's in politics, but at that point in time that was when I met and then married my husband my first husband I don't feel that I had a role model. Remember my mom had to quit work because she became married and then had a family And then she stayed, as was the case with a lot of mothers at that time. She stayed in the home. She didn't have a job until I was a teenager outside of the home. So I didn't have a role model for how you have a career and a family.
Speaker 2:So when I married my husband and we started our family which was I did have an ill-fated half of a master's in urban and regional planning again, because I don't think I really knew quite what I wanted to do and I didn't have any models about how do you have a family and be a married woman and have a career at the same time. This was a period in time where I was an oddball because I didn't change my name when I married. So I mean I got married in 1991, which was also, coincidentally, the year that I graduated from university. That was one of the things that I had not wanted to do, but my parents were unable to come over for both a wedding and a graduation, so I decided to have them both at the same time. So the things that I would do differently are not those things. I would not be doing those things again if I were to do it now, but it's an entirely different environment now. And anyway, i didn't have a role model for how to be a married woman and have a career.
Speaker 1:But I guess you wanted to be married was important to you at that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Yeah, and then when we had our sons, it was important to me to raise them myself, because I mean those pivotal years between zero and six, when they go to school, and all the rest of it. Whose values do you pour into them? You know, how do you give them that sense? I wanted to give them that sense that I had growing up that your family was a support and a rock and a foundation, and if you're not there for them during the day, then it's less. I thought So it was important to me to be there for them. So I stayed home with my sons for the first seven years that they were around, and that's not to say that I didn't have work. Coinciding with my graduation in 1991 was a big recession, so there weren't jobs, there wasn't plentiful work out there. So between third and fourth year, actually, that was when I started my first company. So it you know, and that was just. It was a research company.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so at that point, when you were married and you know, had just graduated, so was it more normalized to degree for a woman to have to be married and to have a job? Because I'm wondering like what were the conversations like with your now ex-husband. What was that? what were, like, some of the conversations around family And obviously you were you. You you're pursuing a master's degree, so I mean like yeah, i guess like what. What were the conversations you guys were having with each other?
Speaker 2:Uh, well, it was around these, around these kinds of things. You know who is who is raising our kids and and do we want that to be us? And we decided we did. Um, uh, you know money was tight, so decisions around spending and all that kind of thing were certainly there conversations around all of that. Um, I did have work through my company. I took, uh, research contracts that would fit around kids schedules and that sort of thing. Um, and I chose that work that way for a reason and that that remains a value to to me now.
Speaker 2:Um, i have all the way through my 32 years of of working and and and so on, i have organized my work to fit into my life.
Speaker 2:And when I coach people and entrepreneurs, uh, particularly when they come with a business plan like here's my business plan for such and such, let's talk about it I always sort of say this is great, we're going to hold on to this, but let's talk about your life first. What hats do you have on so that if you have a business, it's going to take up a hundred percent of your time and energy, but you're caring for a mother or parent with Alzheimer's or dementia and you have a child and you're a member of a faith community and you volunteer at such and such. Is that business actually timed right for you right now? Is there another way that we need to look at this and hold this so that we're not setting ourselves up for failure? Um, so the the insights that I have from you know, 32 years of running various kinds of businesses all of them by my own direction um, come to play in those kinds of conversations that I have with people now.
Speaker 1:Well, i see, let's go back a little bit back to, um, you know, with your, your experience, and because it's. What's interesting to me is that you grew up in a household with, you know, your mom being a stay at home mom. But I mean, running and starting your own company is, anyone knows, is a lot of work. Like, where did these? I guess, what was driving your, what was motivating you, like, i'm imagining you had some vision, uh, for your life, you know, that inspired you to get married and to start a company and, like, had this like vision that was unlike what you grew up with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you know, most people don't have a vision for their life. Most people just go through life and life happens and things you know, and it's only as they look over their shoulder and hindsight do they actually see a through line or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Yeah.
Speaker 2:For the most part, things happen to us and we're like, oh, this makes sense at the time. So you know, uh, i used to always say you make the best, and I still do. You make the best decisions that you have that you can. At the time, you're making them with the information that you have, right. So you can't, you can't project too far into the future and you can't look back too far in the past. You have to deal with what's here now. And so at that point in time, um, i had two sons and, um, well, sorry, go back to graduation. You know, um, we were my siblings and I were some of the first in our family to be going to university. There wasn't money set aside, there wasn't. We didn't even up. Here in Canada we have a registered savings vehicle called a RESP, for saving for your child's education. That wasn't there then. The RESPs, the savings plans that were available were very, very limited and my parents didn't have spare money for that kind of thing, so there wasn't a plan for us to go to school. My mom used to say my plan for you is to get through high school and not get pregnant. It's like okay, good, got that Like done. Yeah, like it's a different mindset, right? So then you go out and you get a job and you pay your way And that's I mean.
Speaker 2:I started working when I was 12. I had babysitting jobs and then I was a lifeguard by the time I was 15. I was a lifeguard for closing in on 10 years, so it was a mainstay for my summer employment. But then I was a rowing coach and I managed the recreational rowing program for summer at the rowing club. I worked at the performing arts office on campus for five years. Like I had a million jobs. I was always I was on the move, always for some kind of work. But by the time I got to third year the recession had hit and there was not a lot of places to get work And I was looking in the newspaper and there was a.
Speaker 2:The newspapers used to have classified ads and there were job ads and our local district health council, which was a planning body for health in Canada We have a socialized healthcare, so they were planning body for the province of Ontario, for our district, and they wanted somebody to come in and write what they called the mental health needs assessment. Our Kingston is a large catchment, regional catchment zone for health, which included psychiatric health, and they wanted to know. Well, the minister of health wanted to know in each of the districts what have we got, what mental health services do we have And what do we need? What isn't being met. So the the local district health council needed to hire somebody to do that.
Speaker 2:So I just walked in and I said I'd like this job. And they said, uh, two, two women who are my age now, who looked at me and said, yeah, we'd like to give you this job, but you need a business number. I'm like, okay, i'll go get a business number. So I did, i have that business number to this day, the same one. And yeah, and so then then these piecemeal contracts would come up and you know, i would fit them into my life And they're fairly lucrative in the sense that you know, i'm an educated person and I'm not being paid minimum wage for it. That's a big deal when you're, you know, in third year university and then in fourth year, yeah, and I and I did those clear through to 1996 when we moved to uh out to British Columbia with my husband. At that point in time, yeah, so you know, i didn't have a vision. It happens, and it happens, and it happens, and then it's only when you look back, as you say, that you see it through line.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i mean it just like I don't know. I guess so much of like what you hear today is like have a vision, have like targets and goals for your life And I'm just like.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, it's hard to know, you know and and so much of it is just like it really is, like you only know what you know now and you do you do the best with the information you have now. And yeah, maybe 10 years ago if I knew what I knew. Now I do a lot of things differently, but 10 years ago I didn't have that information.
Speaker 2:You know, that's right, and it's been of a burden sometimes too, to have too, too heavy or too I'm. I'm constantly working with my clients I'm shaking my hands out here to hold things loosely, because when we have a vision and we have a sense of where we should be going, if things aren't working out that way, then we have a tendency to hold tighter and in that way we strangle the dream that we have. And whereas if we're able to loosen it up a little bit and say, okay, so we have this, we have this sense of direction that we think that we want to go in. But let's unpack that a bit and say well, what are the things that you value And why does that matter to you?
Speaker 2:You know, if we look at Simon Sinek's work, you know where. What's my why And if and sometimes your why only comes to you after you've had a bit of experience trying different things that didn't work out. And so if we hold too tightly onto that dream or that vision, then maybe we end up in a place that we never intended to be on. There's a, there's a a joke about CEOs that they've been climbing up the ladder and when they get to the top of the ladder they realize that they put it on the wrong wall. It's like this isn't actually where I'm supposed to be because I'm working with engineers, but actually I find that I'm a creative person and I wish that I had something a little bit different right now.
Speaker 1:And so How do we know that before we, we, you know spend all this time Like how do we know we're on the right wall, so to speak?
Speaker 2:you know, because it almost feels like you don't know until you get there.
Speaker 1:You know because Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we learned. We learned to listen to ourselves. We have three centers of wisdom in us our head, our heart and our and our body. And in North America today and in the Western world, we place a lot of priority on our head, and, in reality, our body and our heart are part of the equation too, and right now we overlook them.
Speaker 2:And so you know yourself, that whole notion of gut instinct this is. This is at the root of all of the research that we're doing on the Vegas nerve and how connected that is to to our brain. The Vegas nerve is the only nerve that connects from our gut to our head And it's it's like a super highway to get information up there. And so you know yourself, when you walk into a place and it feels just right and you can't put any words or anything, it just I feel like this is the right place for me, i feel like I belong, i feel like I, whatever it is, but there's a felt sense in your body that this is right Or I don't belong here, this is dangerous, this isn't the right place for me. I've made a wrong term somewhere.
Speaker 2:So that whole listening to our body and understanding where our instincts come from. It's not something that we do very much in North America, but it is a primal sense of knowing, so learning how to sit and just listen. People who study emotions say that if you ask anyone person, what emotions can you go through? I mean for you what? what emotions do you have in any given day?
Speaker 1:You're asking me. Yeah, um, boredom is a very strong one, boredom.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like boredom and like lack of um energy or motivation.
Speaker 2:Okay, mm, hmm, mm, hmm.
Speaker 1:Those are very strong ones right now in my life. Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's good. That's good Cause a lot of people will will identify only three or four different emotions Happy, sad, angry, um, but there's actually a whole, a whole whole bunch of other things that we can be and these common layers, so like if we were to begin to to to explore. Where does your boredom come from? Tell me more about the emotion of boredom. What is that for you? Where does it come from? What does it feel like in your body If you begin to? well, we can, yeah.
Speaker 2:I wasn't sure It's okay, Like if you were to say is there a felt sense of?
Speaker 1:boredom, yeah, mm, hmm, yeah, no, there there is, i think. You know, hearing you speak, like you know, i can't help but insert myself in what you're talking about And my day to day. What I'm trying to figure out actually from my life right now is like I don't feel like I necessarily fit into this environment here because I'm I'm living in the suburbs for the first time in my life And even though I moved here for my family and my family is much closer by to me now, um, there's just like a lack of I don't, I don't, i don't, i don't, i don't, i don't feel inspired or like excited. My energy tends to be quite low often And then I get really tired throughout the day, like my eyes get heavy and I just get really tired and I shut down, even though I know I'm not tired. It's just this feeling of what feels boring, what feels like something like a lot of things are not interesting and there's not much to look forward to. It just feels very stale is what it feels like?
Speaker 2:So what you're describing is like a lethargic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, very lethargic often.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And I know that that's not me as a person, right.
Speaker 2:Um what does inspire you?
Speaker 1:What inspires me? Um, i can't remember the last time I was like inspired per se. Well, i guess you know what. I don't know what. Maybe there's different definitions for inspiration for me. Um, like, i just recently started watching, i watched a new a series of friend recommend. I don't know if you've watched this. It's called scenes of scenes from a marriage.
Speaker 2:Okay, i have heard of it. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's a remake from a much older, i think, movie or TV show, but really, really well done. And I was just like, wow, this is so great, how well done it is. And the actors I'm often inspired by people, so you know, even having conversations like this is just like.
Speaker 2:I think that perks you up. Yeah, it purrs me up.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it's inspired, but it's interesting. Yeah, yeah, engaging Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of the things that, um, that you had said we wanted to talk about was the section of my website where it's called things I know to be true, and one of the things that I talk in there about is um, i'll read it for you. It says uh, find a picture of yourself from childhood, say, when you're three to five years old. Um, see the joy in your face and the animation that's there. Um, this is who you're born to be. Can you? can you find in yourself that person? And what animated her then? Like, if you go back to some of your earliest memories, do you have anything that you know?
Speaker 1:it's funny because I actually just had this conversation with a friend and I couldn't really think of what came to mind. And what comes to mind when I'm asked that question is that I just remember I was a very imaginative kid and I love like playing, make believe and creating. I was often like creating things, whether it was with Legos or we had a bunch of cardboard boxes around the house, or just like building stuff.
Speaker 2:Oh, sure, yeah.
Speaker 1:Cardboard boxes are great. Yes, it's the best. You can create all kinds of things. So I, just when I think about what lit me up as a kid, was just like being in my imagination and just like playing. Um, yeah.
Speaker 2:And is there any part in your life right now work or otherwise where you play like that?
Speaker 1:No, i I have bits and pieces of that. I think part of why I love cooking is the same like okay with your hands and building, Yeah Right. So I guess you know having to create an episode, create content around it, like that's some part of it that I um, i guess somewhat similar but feels kind of different still.
Speaker 2:Sure, sure, yeah. So I love that you can touch into some of those spaces for yourself and and you, just in this conversation, have identified the absence of feeling inspired by something and the memory of there was a time when, and the kinds of things that got you animated, and that in itself is knowledge and information that you you had in yourself but you haven't really looked at in the last little bit. And so if we were to take that and move it forward, then how can I bring? we're not saying you know, we're not saying started business, it's a creative whatever. What we're saying is that springboard of of where we are, the patterns that we allow our mind to fall into are the patterns that we also build. Right, so, as go my thoughts, so go my neural pathways.
Speaker 1:Okay, can you give an example of that.
Speaker 2:Well, this is coming out of current research around neuroplasticity, right? So the idea being that where I put my mind is where my neurons build memory around, that which makes that a familiar place for me.
Speaker 2:So then, I tend to go back there. Yes, i tend to go back there. So if I'm building something that is lethargic, i'm inviting more lethargy, i'm creating the preconditions for lethargic thinking behavior. If I want something different, i need to then begin to find where do I get my juice from, what gets me animated, where is my hope and where is my inspiration? And can I have some of that in my life? Doesn't have to be the major focus, but can I have some part of that? Because I know that that lights me up And as I begin to build that pathway, i will find other things that also do that.
Speaker 2:And who knows, maybe there will be something that will come out of this, because there is a. There is a I mean, some people call this manifesting putting it out to the universe and then in the universe shoots it back at me. Right, and maybe that's a woo-woo talk, i don't know, but I do believe that what I put out, i do get back, and when I start stepping out and doing things, it leads to more of those things. And then there are some meanders off of that thing that can also be interesting, that might have opportunity there, and then I'm connected to people who are in that space And then I get drawn more into that space And then I find myself having a bigger and bigger part of my life that inspires me and gets my juices going.
Speaker 1:Well, how do people and we'll continue using me as an example, since we already started there but like, how would someone like me, where maybe you're already in your neural pathways, right? So let's let, let, let let. Lethargic being lethargic, how how does then somebody start like changing the neural pathways? Cause I can speak for myself, i'm sure for a lot of other people it's like, well, the weight of that daily feeling it's too much to feel, like it feels maybe challenging or like difficult to then think of a more, i don't know positive or like hopeful feeling, or you know it, just I don't know. I could just see people feeling like they're in a rut.
Speaker 1:You know what they say like if you're depressed, the best thing you can do is exercise. It's like I don't even have the energy to exercise, so it's like. it's like the chicken or the egg kind of a thing. You know Sure, sure, sure.
Speaker 2:Well, setting aside any, you know, significant mental illness or depression or anything along those things. So if we're working just with someone who's who has, who doesn't have any neurodiversity going on, and it and it's simply stuck, as you say, in a rut, how do I shift out of that? Well, the first thing is not beating up on myself or being in a rut. Right, tick Nut Han had this great phrase when you, when you're aware of and this gets, this gets back to the whole you know things. I know to be true. Awareness is a pathway, so, but it's non-judgmental awareness where I'm saying, you know, hello, lethargy, i see you, old friend, i'm feeling lethargic today And you know what? That's okay, i can feel lethargic, and this goes into that, and I'm shaking my hands here again, that, holding it loosely. I feel lethargic and I'm not gonna beat up on myself for that. I'm gonna say that I'm feeling lethargic and okay, now what? So I'm feeling lethargic and I do know that they say that if I go and exercise, meh, i could do something. But I could, what could I do? Well, maybe I could go for a walk. There's a wonderful practice called letting in the good. I'm going out for a walk And even though I'm in the suburbs, what are the good things that are here?
Speaker 2:There's a bird tweeting. That's kind of nice. Might even be raining. Maybe the rain feels nice. After a cold winter It's a warm rain. Maybe the sun's out and I'm feeling that on my face. Maybe the wind is here and it feels fresh. What are the good things?
Speaker 2:So, rather than we have this predisposition as human beings and it's imprinted on us from our prehistoric days to focus on the negative, because the negative is where the danger is. If I don't see the negative, i won't see the car coming at me and then I'll be killed. So I need to pay attention to the negative so that I can stay safe. We also need to pay attention to some of the positive stuff. So, recognizing we have this velcro type relationship with negative, i can also say hey, negativity. Old friend, i see you.
Speaker 2:I have lethargy and I have negativity. Now I'm gonna go for a walk and I'm gonna focus on some of the good things that are here. And what does that feel like to me? And how many of them can I find I can feel this is where a meditation practice of any kind can come in, and I'm not talking about sitting on a Zazu mat and you know rug and or a meditation mat, but I'm talking about paying attention.
Speaker 2:What's going on in my body? I have this body that gets me walking places. I have this system that breathes even when I don't think about it and the heart that beats even when I don't pay it any attention at all, and that's kind of a miracle, right. And so I can begin to let in some of the just the good stuff that's all around me. I mean, look, i could have been born when Trudy was, when women had to, you know, change their name when they married, when they had to, when my mother was born, had to, you know, put their job because they were married. I could be born a hundred years before that, when, you know, i'd be tied to a plow, trying to plow a field somewhere because we didn't have a horse. And what are we gonna do? Right, there's all kinds of good things that I could have, and if I begin to use my creativity to come up with just a few of those things that I can feel grateful for, then gratitude is just as good as going for a run in terms of endorphins, right?
Speaker 1:So How did you first discover this to be one of the things to be true in your life? Like, yeah, like you said, none of us are born unhappy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're all born kind. That was another one.
Speaker 1:How did you first, you know, i guess like yeah, like what was your experience of identifying that truth in your life?
Speaker 2:Well, think back to the schoolyard when you were in kindergarten, junior kindergarten. Have you ever watched little kids? these days They are in innately kind. One of them cries and the other ones go and hug it. I'm sorry, you're sad. you know, you fell down and scraped your knee. Let me give you a hug, you know.
Speaker 2:So when we see it in the most innocent of us, we see that by and large, there are very few of us that are big meanies. you know, life teaches us to armor up. Brene Brown will tell us that. Life teaches us how to protect ourselves and keep ourselves safe. And we do that by distancing ourselves. We also do that by not listening to our heart and to our body and just operating in our brain, because our brain big, powerful brain we can figure everything out and keep ourselves safe. So we armor.
Speaker 2:And it's only when we begin to learn to put down the armor and allow ourselves to be vulnerable and real with each other and other people and ourselves, most importantly, that we begin to have that space for the arc of development and that arc of connection, that real connection that says hey, i see you And I see your heart right now, your humanity, your courage, your compassion, all of these wonderful things that make you unique, thank you, unique. So I think we are innately kind and we forget that we are that way And it takes courage to do that. And I think you know the state of affairs in both our countries are 100% positive, you know. But what happens if we hold the door for each other? And what happens if I see your humanity?
Speaker 1:And I respond to that yeah, I think what happens to so many people is that you live long enough and you experience quite a bit of rejection, pain, the maliciousness of people, and just that. You know that you just kind of compounds on you And I think like people armor up because they start having these more of these experiences. I guess you know, like I guess, like for you, how do you try to stay more in the light and not be so overwhelmed or burdened by some of the more painful experiences in your life, because in some ways I don't blame people to a degree of, like man, life is hard. You know you go through a lot of hard experiences and that's why people can, you know, be so guarded or so angry, and you know all these things, And not to be an excuse, but it's just like yeah life is hard, so I totally get it, you know.
Speaker 1:But, what is inspiring are people who are able to then not be succumbed to all the pain and hurt that they have experienced. It's like oh, i wish I could be like that. Just there's like an openness, it's a freedom, there's a love about people like that, like how do you stay in that lane or how do you like come, like, go back to that, like you said, like that original place of as being a kid? is this natural kindness and love that humans have?
Speaker 2:Well, this is where we get into the having a vision kind of thing, for and I took a course with a company called the Strasie Institute out on the West coast in California, and one of the things that they talked about was making a commitment. You know, what are you committed to? And through the course of working with them, i came to realize that I'm actually I'm a. I have made a commitment to what I call grounded kindness, and grounded kindness is, to my mind, a philosophy about how I hold myself and how I interact with other people. I was raised by my mom in a lot of ways to be nice And as a two in the Enneagram we talked about the Enneagram before we got on this call Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So two is a helper And as a two in the Enneagram I sit in the heart space. So, and love is one of the essential core components of a type two. It is the essence of what it is that we're looking for. So, as a two and as a human being, let's come at it this way Human beings, motivations for any activity, things that they say, things that they do come from three places Seeking safety, safety, belonging and dignity. Safety, belonging and dignity.
Speaker 2:So when I look at someone outside who's having a tough time and has come at me in a way that might appear disgruntled or what have you, if I am able to, in that moment, see them as a human being who's having a bad day, as opposed to an asshole, then the way that I respond is quite a bit different. They are triggered by something either safety, belonging or dignity. For some reason is being threatened for them and they're attacking as a result, in whatever way that looks like. And is there any way that I can see that and operate from a human place? And it doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be anything other than making eye contact and smiling, holding the door for them.
Speaker 2:Beautiful day, eh Right. I don't have to say I see you're having a hard day. Is there anything I can do to help you? I don't have to do that. That's an instinct of a two right to try and do that, but I don't need to do that. I can just be there as a loving presence, because maybe that's what they need right now is a reminder of the humanity that is here, and so recognizing the humanity of other people is one of our clearest ways of addressing these challenges that you're speaking of.
Speaker 1:Well, I want to definitely go through some of the other things in your list.
Speaker 2:We talked about emotions as signposts. You know, that's another one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can we talk? can we go into that a little bit more like how, like you said, so many people are not in touch with? like you know? you said there's your head, the head, heart and body and we're often in our heads For people who are maybe not usually tapping into the emotion space. How how can they start start doing that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, part of it is just what we've already done. Like what, what do you feel right now, which is a starting point for most meditation practices. Call it a sitting practice, if you like, if meditation is too big a word, but it's like what are you feeling right now? What do you feel in your body? What do you feel in your heart? And again, english is just like we had with the word trauma. English is limiting. Feeling could be my emotions, feeling could be my body, and so two things that you always have to go back to you as anchors. One is your breath, because you're always breathing. The other one is you're always feeling something. We're tactile people, so even as you're sitting there, you can feel are you standing or sitting?
Speaker 1:I'm sitting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what do you feel as you're sitting?
Speaker 1:I feel my knees because I'm kind of sitting in this like quirky thing, so it's a little bit tight in certain areas, sure.
Speaker 2:So we're feeling our knees. We're probably feeling your bum on the chair. Yeah, are your feet on the?
Speaker 1:floor. No, they're raised up. One sitting on my paper shredder.
Speaker 2:Okay, so a foot on the paper shredder, so you can feel the bottom of your foot on the slippery surface of the paper shredder. You can feel the edge of the desk or whatever we have it on your knee. You can feel your bum on whatever you're sitting on. Where are your hands?
Speaker 1:Right here I'm like playing with this, playing with the pen, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And is your room hot or cold? It's kind of warm in here, kind of warm in here, right.
Speaker 2:So see all the things that we feel already right. Can you feel your earphones in your ears? I can. This one keeps coming out.
Speaker 1:I can see that Yeah.
Speaker 2:We have physical sensations. So, no matter what, we can always go back to physical sensations And sometimes our physical sensations can lead us into more information about what's going on inside of us. And sometimes they're just, you know, our ear thing falling out or our knees against the desk. So then from there then we can get into. What are you feeling emotionally?
Speaker 2:And we already talked about feeling some lethargy. We already talked about feeling a little bit of dislocation from living in the suburbs, and I know you told me before that you're a city gal, so there's a sense of I don't know if I belong here. My family's here, so there's a sense of belonging that way, but I don't feel like I'm energized by being in this space. So if we, if we use the notion that emotions are signposts, what is, what is the information that is coming to you when you say I'm feeling kind of lethargic here, i'm feeling heavy and tired, you know, and we can, we can.
Speaker 2:There's a philosopher called Heidegger, and one of the things that they said was that humans are meaning making machines. So what meaning do you make out of feeling lethargic and the physical sensation that by the middle of the day my eyes get heavy even though I'm not tired And I feel this sense of dislocation, and we're not judging any of that. We're simply saying that these are the facts on the ground for me, as they are right now. What is any? what could this mean for me?
Speaker 1:Well, what's so funny is like, as we're talking out the thought, i did have a fleeting thought in my mind, which was this was the most energized I felt all day. You know, it's like what is it about this that you know that I'm. It's like towards the end of the day, and here I am the most energized, you know, and you can't quite shake up the energy during the day. So I did have that I did have that thought.
Speaker 2:Sure, and so what we're talking about is awareness, right? So, without, with a non-judgmental, kind attitude, asking the question what's here for me now? Real sensations, emotional realities not saying they're good or bad, they simply are here And if I can begin to notice those kinds of things and then get to a place where I can say, okay, so what does all of this mean for me? I find myself this way or that way, and then does this, what then? what next comes up for me as I, as I have this awareness about where, where I am and what's going on for me. Does that actually mean that maybe I need to make a change somewhere? And what would that change look like? Not saying, moving, not not saying. But is there some way that in some part of my life, i can begin to build some neural pathways for this energizing activities that I enjoy having? Right, and what would that look like? What are the possibilities here?
Speaker 2:It's always helpful to to spend a little bit of time either doing a mind map or a stream of consciousness writing, saying tell me about a time when I did feel energized. What was there, what was going on that made that possible? How did it feel in my body And how is that different from now? Right, so you can have a mind map would be just taking a clean sheet of paper and putting times I felt energized in the center of it And then, just you know, spitballing it on the page and writing them all down until all of those instances, those fragments of time when you did feel energized, have been spilled out on the page maybe one session, maybe two sessions, who knows. And then set it aside for a little bit and then coming back to it and shift, shifting it and say, okay, well, you know, are there any themes, are there any buckets that these kind of fall into? And then what? What do I do with that? And isn't that interesting? And then we begin to have some awareness and some thoughts around this And then we can begin to come into a practice, a meditative practice of noticing the times in my day when I feel energized or when I don't feel energized, and without judgment.
Speaker 2:What is that? What information does that give me? Because everything we experience gives us information. We just have to turn on the switch that says let's be aware about this Because, as we talked about when you were asking me what was your vision of your life when you were, i didn't have one.
Speaker 2:Life happens to every single one of us And very rarely do we actually go in with intention, even though, as a coach, i talk and I encourage people to have intention. For the most part, our lives happen to us And it's only in our insight that we look back and go oh, that's what I was doing, and sometimes meeting is there and sometimes not. It's all fine. So, with that insight now, what? Now? how do I, as a 54 year old woman who's run a company in various ways a company of one, i might add Where does that leave me? What do I want And what do I see from my past? that now allows me to maybe work with a little bit more focus and attention on some of the things that I think have actually proven to be important to me through time, because I have the data that says that right, the life that I have lived has led me to the space that suggests that boom. Whatever, that is right.
Speaker 1:I think well, first, i do love the fact that the whole beginning with self-awareness. It's interesting now going through your list how connected each of these things are, but how simple it is. It could be as simple as what are you feeling physically, which is I think most people can probably really start there if you're not used to tapping into your emotions. But I think what? and maybe I'll feel differently after I actually do the exercise of stream of consciousness. But what's coming to mind is, as I'm thinking about myself and thinking about other friends, that It's hard to think about.
Speaker 1:Life kind of gets in the way and, so to speak, you got responsibilities, you have obligations and it sounds like a dream to create a life and your business is a piece in your life, opposed to building a business and then building your life around that business. I don't know, i guess it's just like how do we not like? it's just because this word. What keeps coming to my mind as we're talking is like it's just feeling of stuck. Because you want to make a move, you want to make a change, you recognize things don't feel quite right. I haven't felt energized, not just me, i'm just talking about people in general and in a long time and you're just like I, feel stuck.
Speaker 1:But like, what can I do? I have my kids to take care of, i have my family to take care of. Like I have this job, i have this obligation, i have a spouse, i have, you know, all these things that might be holding you back, or a family, like I want to live by my family, you know.
Speaker 2:But tell me about the different feeling here. I feel stuck and I'm held back by the fact that I'm a mother and I have children that I look after and I have financial responsibilities. So I feel stuck. I have a loving family and a job that I have prepared for and I mostly enjoy, and within that, this gives me the space and foundation to be able to spend Tuesday nights in a creative rating class. It's the same set of facts, but it's how you hold them right.
Speaker 2:These are realities of our lives and sometimes, when we see the realities of our lives as limiting factors remember neuroplasticity we're creating the pathway for this being a limiting factor as opposed to. These are the things that support me and uphold me, and from that place, i'm going to buy an old-fashioned camera and I'm going to go out on a walk on Tuesday nights for half an hour and I'm going to take pictures of things that catch my eye and then I'm going to play with those. I mean with the internet these days we have, you can very easily establish a blog or something like that and it's just your mind's eye I mean, gosh, my mind's eye and it's just pictures with a little caption. It doesn't have to be your life's work, but it can be the thing that gives you that creative juice that allows you to get through to when your kids are launched and they go to college and you have more time.
Speaker 1:I love that, so it's how you hold it Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's how you hold it. Of course, we're talking about people who don't have significant wellness issues or significant mental illness or anything like that. We're talking about non-neurodiverse minds. So for those of us who are feeling stuck in a life, is there another way that you can hold that? Is there another way that you can even just talk about it to yourself? Is there another way that I can hold that that recognizes safety, belonging and dignity? here I feel safe within the love of my family, and they do depend on me to bring in, even if it's only a part-time income and even if it's not an income that really lights my fire. But I can show my children the way that within that I can find a spark. That's mine. So that is maybe.
Speaker 2:It's cooking awesome meals and Friday nights we're going to make dinner from a different part of the world and we're going to do a little bit of research. Tonight we're going to have, you know, serveche from Peru. This is why we make it. I don't know whatever. Right, there's all kinds of ways that we can bring creativity and energy into those kinds of things.
Speaker 2:The facts of our lives are real. Our responsibilities are real. Our connections to other people and the ties that bind us are real, but how we hold them is a choice. You know I often say that and this is something that I picked up from the Buddhist teachings is that pain is a fact of life, but suffering is an option, and suffering is created when we resist the natural pain that's in our lives, you know, a natural pain that is there every day, whatever that looks like for each and every one of us.
Speaker 2:It's when we resist that and I say I don't want it that I create suffering for myself. It's how I hold it, and when we can hold loosely, with loose hands, we don't suffocate and break the neck on joy and good experiences and we leave it open for creative ideas to continue to come in. I often do this with my client. I'll say, like, make a fist with your hand really, really, really tight and now try and pick up a pen. If you loosen off your hand, shake it out. Now pick up a pen. You can do a lot more when you're relaxed and loose than you can when you're tight and holding.
Speaker 1:We missed a big chunk of your story. How did you get into this line of work?
Speaker 2:Well, after my divorce and after I quit. So we have CBC Radio here, which is a Canadian Broadcasting Corporation which is like your version of NPR, except it's state, unlike NPR, it's wholly state supported. And I was a radio journalist there and, beginning on the path to what I always thought was my dream job, which was to be the foreign correspondent from Jerusalem, i left the CBC and I moved to Ottawa because although I worked on the six o'clock news, i worked till 10 o'clock at night and as a suddenly single parent with two boys in grades one and two, finding daycare until six was hard, but daycare until 10 is impossible. So I worked from one until nine, so not good. So I moved to Ottawa, which is where my parents had settled after returning from their trips abroad, and they settled after coming back from Italy, gave up my dream of journalism and established, blew off that business number again and established a strategic communications company. I also did a little bit of work for the federal government, understanding how communications there worked, and that's what fed into understanding how all this strategic communications worked, because I understood the government side then and then I'd understand the journalism side and so I could work with clients on the strategy about how to communicate effectively.
Speaker 2:And as I made that shift here, i ran into a woman who became herself. She'd worked for 25 years in the federal government. She was a director general, which is a fairly senior position at a very large department for the federal government, and she was about to take her coach training. She was going to take a leave of absence from her job in HR, human resources to become a coach and she said hey, you'd be great, you should do this too. We just happened. We both been invited the same It was a women's networking party by a woman who runs a big consulting company here. And it turns out that this friend of this woman who became my coaching mentor was also a singer. So we did some. I wrote some musicals for her and for her singing group. That's a whole different story. And she said you'd be a great coach.
Speaker 2:And at that point in time my life was a mess. The boys and I had just moved here. We were trying to figure out how to. At that point in time, their dad didn't want to be involved And we knew that the kids needed their dad, so I kept his space available for him. My lawyer thought I was nuts. He was like no, you know, he doesn't want to be involved, so get soul custody. I'm like no, the kids need to know who their dad is And when the time comes, this space will be available for him and I will keep it here. So that's what I did, that was my intention, and eventually he did and came around. But anyway, this friend said, hey, you'd make a great coach, but I was still paying off my masters And, as I said, my life was a mess.
Speaker 2:But I sort of kept that in mind. And this is what I mean by you have a life plan, you have a sense of what's your life and you have a business that fits into it. So I I'd sort of had in my mind that when my kids went to university which wasn't actually going to be that long that I could take my some coach training at that point in time And in those intervening seven or eight years, while the kids were going through grade school and then high school, i can take little coaching classes that will sort of give me a bit of a sense of and some skills and tools around all of this, which I can then use in my life but will prepare me for the day when the kids have launched And I can then retool myself again, rename the business from, you know, strategic communications into a coaching business. And so this is I'm not saying. When I coach entrepreneurs and people in business, i'm not giving them anything that I haven't already done myself. My kids were my priority. I had to provide for them.
Speaker 2:It never occurred to me that I could not And that doesn't mean that I went searching for government experience or searching for private company experience But I knew that I had to make a living. And what did that look like? Well, that looked like this for them. And then it looked like this for them. And then I was like Oh well, you know, i can now marry these two and move it forward, which is exactly what I did. And so coaching came to me at that point, the Enneagram came to me. At that point It was 2002. And that's when I saw that I've known from the get go. That too was my home home space, but I ran away from that for a year, or for 10 years, sorry, i did not get back into it again until 2013 when I took training because I didn't have time and capacity to actually do the work, to look at myself.
Speaker 2:I was a two, i knew that I was a two, but I felt that visceral shame of Oh my God, i do those things And, oh you, there's some. The Enneagram is a wonderful tool Angie would kill me, angie, you know to hear that but it is a wonderful tool for seeing yourself. But it's just the beginning of the conversation And you can look at it for all of its component parts. You know, where do I sit in the circle? Where do I go on a good day? How am I affected by the wing on other side of me? The type on other side of me is we're laid out in the circle, but actually working with that is incredibly vulnerable and can be very, very painful to do, because you recognize the ways in which you have hurt yourself or hurt others by these bit loops of behavior that you're not even aware that you're doing. The Enneagram talks about and just like most, personality models, yeah well the model itself.
Speaker 2:The notion is that we develop our personality between the ages of two and six, and it's based on the ways in which our primary caregivers could not meet our needs, and so we then begin to act out in ways that have us meet, get those needs met. So in my case, i was a helper from the get-go And my mother had some of her own challenges with mood and depression from having to quit a job and a career and feeling in the military. She felt for the first time in her life that she had a community that supported her. She never felt that she had that in her home family And then she had to leave it. That's a huge wound in somebody, right, and so that kind of thing. Even though she had a family that loved her, it was never enough for that independent spirit that she had to go out and be herself, and she only started to do that when I was 12 or 13 and she went back to school and got some more education that would allow her to work outside of the home. But before that she would struggle with mood, she would struggle with anger, and so my primary coping mechanism was to help to do anything that I could, even as a little child, so that I would be safe and she wouldn't be mad. This is how the Enneagram plays in this. That is not an intentional choice. That is how I was built. That is how I was trying to stay safe safety, belonging and dignity right.
Speaker 2:Coming back to our motivations, So if I were a five, an investigator, maybe I would have gotten really big into dinosaurs or detective novels and everything was sleuthing and all of that kind of stuff And I would have all of this information and then I would use the books as my protection. If I were the four, the artist, which we know it as the individualist in the Riso Hudson, they tend to be very artistic, so maybe I might get into dance or I might get into some kind of creative thing and then get into that imaginary world that gives me protection from the experience that I'm having, and we're talking about formative years between two and six. So we developed that way and I developed to be a helper And so when I saw myself when I was 34, i guess it was I could see all the ways in which I had gotten my own way and didn't allow myself to be reach my potential in whatever I thought it was at that point in time And that hurt. I also did not have the capacity at that point in time to to deal with any of that. I was coming out of a 15 year relationship, i had two little boys to provide and I was on my own. So there was no capacity within me to be able to look at those things. I was already vulnerable, i was already tired and scared. And you know what I have to. I have to step up, and it never occurred to me that I would fail in providing for my sons and I didn't manage very well As a matter of fact. But I didn't have the capacity to look at those things And it was when I went into my coach training that I then dove into.
Speaker 2:Well, who am I? How does all this come to be? How do I trip myself up? How do I get into that space where I can accept these things about myself without shaming myself for them? And so the Enneagram when you actually do the work of the Enneagram, the heart work that Angie talks about and really invites people in at the Big Stone House to do that kind of digging in, it's a real spiritual breakdown, spiritual process. To talk about Brene Brown for a second. It really is. So the Enneagram can be the numbers and it can be all of the numbers and the information about it, but only when you begin to use it as a tool for personal development do you begin to dig into the riches of it.
Speaker 1:I love that. It's funny because it makes sense why you're a coach. It kind of fits in with being a two. It's such a great kind of role to have is to support and help guide people, because there's also just a genuine love of people and wanting to help them that it kind of fits nicely.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and you know, i went through a lot with my divorce, which we're not going to get into here, but I could write a book. I could write a book that would be very sad. I could write a book that would be very funny, and I'm a pretty good writer, so I could do both of those, but I decided instead that I would use the wisdom that I have gleaned from my life up to this point and apply it into holding the space for people, so that they can see themselves and they can have more choice over how they behave in their lives.
Speaker 1:Which is what twos are often so good at doing is holding space for others. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you can do it, it's a very two thing. This loose hands notion, that's very much at the core of how I coach. It is a very two thing. You know, i am love, i am grounded kindness, so that you can see who you are and then decide where do I want to tweak a bit. So, yeah, coaching That seems a really good fit for me. That's a good fit for a lot of people for all their own reasons too, right.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that is true, because there is such a in your background I mean it's more journalism and research and strategy that there's a very like therapy based practice, what it seems like in your coaching.
Speaker 2:Where does that?
Speaker 1:all come from. How has that developed?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a firm line between coaching and therapy. I'm trained by New Ventures West in California as an integral coach and integral coaching brings you close to you, skirt with that boundary all the time, like a career coach or a more specialized coach that comes out a specific slice of your life. They're holding onto that slice of life. If a career coach were working with an entrepreneur, a business coach were working with a business person, i don't think that they get quite into the same questions as I get into or into the same depth as I do, because they're not trained in that way to look in that space And so yeah, so I have done a bit of therapy in my past around co-parenting with my ex-husband and with my own development, out of sort of holding my own life, and that helped me to see the difference between therapy and coaching. So I intuitively feel the difference when, so I will maybe delve into someone's past, but not from a looking at it for a psychological nomenclature. You know, i'm not, i'm not. I have no idea about mental illness and diagnosing anybody for anything. We want to understand where we come from so that we can see how does that, how does that contribute to who you are now and how does that get into the decisions that you're making, you know, as you move forward. And so when I've, when I have worked with people and we've delved into these kinds of things, they have said this feels a lot like therapy and it's like it really can, but it's always in and this was my challenge when I was in therapy I'm telling the same story and over and over again, and in the telling I'm being seen, but I always want to go now, what now? what do I do with this? So I understand all this stuff about where I came from and and you know, maybe attachment theory and various kinds of things that were going on. What now? And the therapists they don't my therapists anyway weren't taking me into that practical. Now, what do I do with this? How do I? how do I be as a result of this? And that's where coaching is is very helpful because we can understand and it works very nicely with therapy in this way And you find actually a lot of therapists now who are taking coaching programs because of that very forward looking.
Speaker 2:Now, what do we do with this? How do we? how do we apply this knowledge that we have? How do we move forward as a result of it. How do we give ourselves compassion for this? How do I deal with this inner critic that has been built over time and that's picking on me all this way? You know? so it's yeah. I'm not sure I answered your question, but that's what I have. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, just to wrap things up, i asked my guests two questions. All my guests, two questions. So the first question being what do you do for play or for fun?
Speaker 2:What do I do? for play or for fun? Well, i garden. I have I've converted my backyard which isn't that big but it's enough into into a garden And during COVID I started, i started growing vegetables because I started to worry about food security. So I have a garden tower that's downstairs in my basement. It's about four or five feet tall and I grow all of our greens there. And then now in the summertime although Canadian summers aren't that long, but I will grow produce for for our consumption and then for pickling and stuff like that. So which leads into cooking.
Speaker 2:I love to cook and I try all kinds of different sort of ways And I cook now with my nose and my and my hearing. I will. I have always taken a recipe and I've always modified the recipe from the get go. So I love to cook. So that's that's fun for me too. I also like UI podcast, so I started. I've made a. when we talk about returning to things that light you up. I love working with sound, i love working with radio sound, i love having interviews with people in conversations like this. So I started my own podcast three years ago now, which has allowed me to return back into doing something that I really love, and now I drop an episode once a week and that's all. that's all fun. So those are things that I do for play.
Speaker 1:Last question is what would you tell your younger self? Trust yourself, you know That's deep, that was, so came up with it Like right away And it was so succinct and direct. It's like you were like waiting for that question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, you know, it's interesting, i, i, that was just in my gut. Yeah, yeah, trust yourself, because there were a lot of ways in which, um, like my first, my first, my first active rebellion to my parents might ask. My parents were strict. Uh, well, i wasn't allowed to wear jeans because bad kids wore jeans. Uh, i wasn't allowed to wear makeup. Um, even though I was buying my own clothes and I had choice within that, i didn't, um, and I was the kind of kid who played by the rules all the time.
Speaker 2:Uh, so my first real active rebellion was marrying my first husband. My parents didn't like him And, uh, and I was like, well, you can't control me, i'm a grownup now. And there were, i think that there were things that about him that if I hadn't had such a um, wasn't taken such a stand, that maybe I would have behaved differently and listened to myself, you know, but I didn't. And so so now I have two wonderful sons, uh, who are coming up 30 and uh, they're not twins, they're just different, you know, but they're both, they're both getting up there.
Speaker 2:And uh, you know, like I wouldn't, i've had a very, i've had a very at this point in time, looking back over it, i've had a very satisfying life. There are places where I got in my own way and mistakes that I would say that I made, although I don't regret them because I learned stuff from them And you know again what's that when we're talking. This is a great example. I can create suffering for myself if I hold on to any of those mistakes and go, oh gosh, i really wish I hadn't done that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm not really real tight and I can make it hard for myself, but towards what end? So you know what? I made some mistakes, we all do. So I give myself some grace and compassion and we move on right. So that's, that's an example of putting into practice And that's where the awareness of what's happening in my body, what am I feeling and what am I emotionally feeling The foundation to being able to do that is in those practices. How do I breathe, how do I hold myself, what am I feeling, what emotion is present for me? Awareness about who I be in this moment is, then, what allows you to catch yourself when you're beating up on yourself or something that you did 10 years ago and you cannot change. I'm aware that I'm doing that. Oh, maybe I shouldn't be doing that. Maybe I'm going to build a different neural pathway towards gratitude and I'm going to let go. I'm going to build a neural pathway towards grace and compassion, because I made the best decision at that time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, about even just holding life loosely too, cause I you know, i think, what I'm also trying to like tell myself often, cause I think, with the tendency of wanting to do things right and not make a mistake, and you know, but that life is to be lived and experienced and, like you know, it's like you know all the things, the mistakes, the hurt, the joys, all those things.
Speaker 1:It's just like this is life, you know, and trying to hold things in that light instead of um, and I think it's hard because, you know, today everyone is so much about like everything, being positive and happy, and like um, and if you're not feeling good, like you got to feel happy, it's like well, sometimes it is just about we do make mistakes and sometimes there is just sadness and there's pain and it's just the experience of life?
Speaker 2:Yeah, And that's what's here right now right And I can't the only time that we have to actually live is now, in this moment, in this present moment. I'm not living in the past. I can't. I can't live yesterday. Yesterday already happened. I can't live tomorrow cause it hasn't come yet. The only time that I have to be an active, present person is now, and again English trips us up, right Present. I have to be present in the present. I have to be here now because that's really all I have, and once this moment is gone, then it's gone, it's past and I can't do anything about it. Actually, what I can do is learn from that. I made that mistake 10 years ago and I'm not going to do it now. You know, my Angelou says uh, when someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Speaker 1:The first time Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot to be said for that. I also believe in second chances, but you know, but keeping that in mind, you know, and I've always been a good judge of character. So when we go back to your, your second question there, that's why that rises up so quickly for me. Trust yourself, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which you know, I'm thinking now as a two, like how important that is, because twos are generally, you know, the propensity is to take in the feelings around you of the other people of the other people. Right And not with yourself, and so that trust thing is actually so key for a two. Um if it's not necessary, if it's not well tended to, that is yeah.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. You're exactly right. Yeah, um, yeah, so you know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:Well, we can end it, We can end this right here.
Speaker 1:I mean this was so great, thank you so much for making the time And like it's so funny, like hearing you talk. It's like I've heard. I've heard so many of these things said in some form or form or another, but like even hearing you talk about um, i mean you didn't necessarily say it in gratitude, but it was just like being grateful and like just re shifting how you think about things. Like I mean I've heard that before, of course, like everyone's like right at gratitude journal and it's about your mindset, and but then hearing the way you were phrasing it, i'm just like, okay, i think she's on something You're like, it just hit differently. So, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, you have to. All of these things are there, but when they are just platitudes, they have no power.
Speaker 2:So, how do we make these things alive? How do I? I can write a gratitude journal, But if I don't actually let myself feel gratitude for, like, one of my favorite things to do is to start my day listening to the birds in the backyard This is the practice of letting in the good right. I love listening to the birds, I love feeling the morning sun on my face, I love the color of the light in the morning And if I practice letting that in, then when I write, I love the sounds of the birds And I love the color of the light in the morning. It's not just words. I've lived that, I've felt that, And in writing that down and then rereading it later, I have that embodied experience head, heart and body of that. I think it's like learning the Enneagram You learn all the facts about it, You write down the gratitude line, but do we actually do anything with it? And that's where these things become a true practice, where I have the practice of.
Speaker 2:Angie has a practice of going out with her golden retrievers every morning and asking them to show her what they see. Now she could just take the dog for a walk, but that's a different practice, right To say show me what you see today, And then just walk with them And they pee and they sniff and they do all the dog things that they typically do on a walk. But when the intention is there, to see the world through the dog's eyes, and you're gonna do this for half an hour as opposed to just walk around the block for half an hour, it's different, right? And so when we and this is like live with intention we've all heard that, but what does it actually mean And how does it actually feel And why do we actually do it And why do we get the benefit from it? You know it's a practice And we don't. All of these things are platitudes until you put them into some kind of real frame for yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, So good. We all need you as a coach in her life. You're kind Well because I just marry some of the things that are important. I think, like I want to say in today's culture, well, i will at least say for an American culture. You know, i mean I guess this was always the case with America, but you know, there's so much emphasis on the hustle, the side hustle the income thing.
Speaker 1:So you know, in a lot of ways, you know, i think it's such a good time for a business coach because, especially for a practice like yours, because business is a thing that so many people are very keenly interested in, and if you start there with what people are interested in, then you kind of then take the back door and two will like tell me about yourself and like what's important to you, i mean, which is what's so lost right now, is to have that kind of like introspection and self-awareness, but then to marry it with you know that you know with business I mean it just, it just is a good combo.
Speaker 2:A straight up business coach is gonna be looking for what's your quarterly numbers, what's your ROI year over year? you know all of this kind of stuff. My business plans I've done whenever year and never has numbers in it. It says you know, what do I want my reach to be? What do I want? My motto in my business, even when it was a freelance writer and a strategic communications person, was always the same leave a good wake. You know the wake of a boat. Leave things better than when you got there, because the money will come.
Speaker 2:I made six figures as a strategic communications advisor. I've made six figures as a coach. It's not the money. I'm doing it because there's a value here, that I have something unique to bring. And if it lights me up and I'm enjoying what I'm doing and I'm bringing value for my clients, then they're gonna pay. But it's not the pay. So it's not the hustle, it's what does the hustle give me? Am I animated? when we go to your, when we go to what you were saying, that you were feeling, when I feel inspired by the work that I'm doing, by this thing that I'm doing, then I will shine and I will want to do more of that and people will want to come to me because I've got something that other people don't have, and it's that animation and that belief in what it is that I'm doing and the value that I'm bringing in this thing that I'm doing, and then they will pay me for that. So we have it backwards. We have it backwards.
Speaker 2:And, furthermore, why are you putting 100% of your time into a job or a business if you don't have 100% of your time available to you? First of all, you must sleep at least eight hours a night. So we've already chunked off eight hours out of your 24 hour pizza, right? And then we've probably got about two hours, maybe three hours, of self-care for some kind of fitness, some kind of soul-based, spiritual-based practice, be it a meditation or a walk or whatever.
Speaker 2:So we chunk out a couple of hours for that. We've got to eat, we've got to shower, we've got to, and then, if we have a family, we have some time there. So how many hours a day do I actually have that I can devote to this thing that I'm building? If you don't come at it from that place, then you have a business and not a life Has to be a life with a business. It has to be, otherwise you're not gonna have that spark that makes you different from other people And that other people want to have a piece of. They want to have a part of that, they want to be part of that glow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i need that. It's so good this is so good for me right now. I mean like right now it's just like I just. yeah, your words are definitely hitting in a very specific area, especially because, like we talked the first time, the podcast is its own thing. It's definitely more hobby based in its business space, but in a lot of ways it's treated like a business in the sense that there's a schedule, there's a commitment and all that to it.
Speaker 1:And then I do have I think I briefly mentioned I do have a separate side business that I am trying to build. And I'm hearing you talk and cause I'm realizing I was saying this to my friend the other day. I would tell him, like you know, i just want to build my own business, i want to build my own thing And organizing was kind of the perfect, not the perfect thing, but like it kind of I you know I won't go into the whole story of like how I ended up getting into that, but like it is something I can do and all that stuff. And I told her I said you know, i couldn't say I just want to build my own business and blah, blah, blah. And here I am building my business And I'm like I'm not having fun with it you know, And.
Speaker 1:But it's so funny because it really is so much about the mindset Cause, as I'm hearing you talk, i'm just thinking like yeah, but I, you know, i and thinking about the whole like what did I enjoy doing as a kid? And I'm like I love to organize And like I do see so much value in this, but like I'm thinking so much about the money of like can this replace my income? How much can I bring in with this? I need to start making this so it like I get X, y and Z, like all these posts like arbitrary, like goal posts I've created for myself And I've completely lost sight of the you know, excitement of actually organizing for somebody or the opportunity to do that for somebody And then I'm doing it.
Speaker 1:I'm like I love it This is so great.
Speaker 2:Well, look at Marie Kondo as an example. Marie, you know Marie Kondo? Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So organizing for Marie Kondo is about what?
Speaker 1:What brings you joy and what sparks joy.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly. So in what is it about organizing that you love? And if you go back to some you know the work of Simon Sinek and find your why, go back to that first terrible TED talk with that awful humming in the sound, but really listen to what he's saying, because he's saying, if you find your why Marie Kondo is an organizer extraordinaire, so that's hers. So when you're looking at your own, what is it that gets you there?
Speaker 1:I feel like I should pay you because it feels like I've got like a free, like coaching session right now.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no no.
Speaker 2:It's all good And I'll come back in Alaska to be a guest on my podcast. How's that? Okay, yeah, that sounds great. Yeah, no, but that's where it comes from. It's not in the hustle. We have it backwards. All of the MBAs, all that stuff, it's all backwards. We have to put the people first. We have to put the heart first. We have to put all of that first. The money will come. People will pay you for that, because they will see the value in what you're doing and they will want to be part of the glow of your excitement about what it is that you're doing. Yeah, you just have to find it. You just have to find it. You're.
Speaker 1:Angie Boom, Just like okay, we got to just like how much can we talk about? It's so good, I'm just like taking it all in right now.
Speaker 2:Good. Well, i hope it's been helpful And, you know, if you do want to kick it around some more, let me know. Yeah, i would love to. I'd be happy to.
Speaker 1:Thank you again for being honest. This was really nice to chat with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, likewise.
Speaker 1:Did you enjoy today's episode? If so, please leave us a review and let us know what you enjoyed. I say us, but it's really me. Who would you like to hear from next, Or what topic you'd like to discuss? regardless, I would love to hear from you. Until next time, bye.